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Date: Thu, 29 May 2025 04:39:17 -0400
Message-ID: <CAEUnE0fzOhJJm_3mVvgSDuN-NgEDyXs91H2-97a3UoOsi0ovnA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP True Async RFC Stage 3
To: "internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: tendoaki@gmail.com (Michael Morris)

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On Wed, May 28, 2025 at 2:01=E2=80=AFPM carlos_silvaaaaa <carlos_silvaaaaa@=
proton.me>
wrote:

> Hello everyone.
>
> I've been thinking about core developers these days, and I'm happy to see
> the PHP foundation growing, and more and more new developers arriving,
> eager to push PHP forward.
>
> But at the same time, I have the feeling that some want to own it, are
> jealous, or are simply arrogant.
>
> The subject of this topic is acclaimed by a good part of the community,
> the reactions are almost always positive, with lots of likes and comments=
,
> and some comments are even pessimistic, not because of the approach chose=
n
> by the author, but because of the ill will of the core developers.
>
> Maybe if this proposal had come from a more respected developer, who had
> made more contributions, or I don't know what the criteria for accepting =
it
> with open arms would be.
>
> Seeing Edmond's dedication, the great effort, to be ignored.
>
> Maybe it really would have been possible to vote within 15 days, because
> it seems there were no objections.
>
> A few years ago, a good developer arrived wanting to improve PHP, but wha=
t
> did they do? They treated him badly, they didn't know how to lead. It's
> typical of this list.
>
> Seeing this topic still, I feel sad and realize how arrogant and toxic
> most of the inmates are.


I'm not one of the devs, just a user in the peanut gallery. (I've opened
the PHP source code - it's, uhm, intimidating).  I don't know what you're
referring to here and can't comment to it.  I can comment to at least the
concept of adding async to PHP.  In a word - why?

PHP scripts have a defined lifecycle and you'll have to wait for any disk
read ops or anything else you'd use a promise for to resolve anyway.
JavaScript uses async to keep the code from locking up the browser while
waiting on this sort of stuff - but PHP outputs an HTML file (usually) and
that's a one time event.  And if you move to any context outside the
webserver page request model why use PHP at all?

As a user I rather like not having to deal with async in PHP. While I can
and do work with it in JavaScript it is by far the part of the language I
dislike the most. If I've got to deal with concurrency and thread issues
I'm writing the project in Golang or some other compiled language - not PHP
- because if speed is that critical an interpreted scripting language is
not the correct solution.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g=
mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 28,=
 2025 at 2:01=E2=80=AFPM carlos_silvaaaaa &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:carlos_silv=
aaaaa@proton.me">carlos_silvaaaaa@proton.me</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"font-family:Arial,=
sans-serif;font-size:14px"></div><span>Hello everyone.</span><div><br></div=
><div><span>I&#39;ve been thinking about core developers these days, and I&=
#39;m happy to see the PHP foundation growing, and more and more new develo=
pers arriving, eager to push PHP forward.</span></div><div><br></div><div><=
span>But at the same time, I have the feeling that some want to own it, are=
 jealous, or are simply arrogant.</span></div><div><br></div><div><span>The=
 subject of this topic is acclaimed by a good part of the community, the re=
actions are almost always positive, with lots of likes and comments, and so=
me comments are even pessimistic, not because of the approach chosen by the=
 author, but because of the ill will of the core developers.</span></div><d=
iv><br></div><div><span>Maybe if this proposal had come from a more respect=
ed developer, who had made more contributions, or I don&#39;t know what the=
 criteria for accepting it with open arms would be.</span></div><div><br></=
div><div><span>Seeing Edmond&#39;s dedication, the great effort, to be igno=
red.</span></div><div><br></div><div><span>Maybe it really would have been =
possible to vote within 15 days, because it seems there were no objections.=
</span></div><div><br></div><div><span>A few years ago, a good developer ar=
rived wanting to improve PHP, but what did they do? They treated him badly,=
 they didn&#39;t know how to lead. It&#39;s typical of this list.</span></d=
iv><div><br></div><span>Seeing this topic still, I feel sad and realize how=
 arrogant and toxic most of the inmates are.</span></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>I&#39;m not one of the devs, just a user in the peanut gallery. (I=
&#39;ve opened the PHP source code - it&#39;s, uhm, intimidating).=C2=A0 I =
don&#39;t know what you&#39;re referring to here and can&#39;t comment to i=
t.=C2=A0 I can comment to at least the concept of adding async to PHP.=C2=
=A0 In a word - why?</div><div><br></div><div>PHP scripts have a defined li=
fecycle and you&#39;ll have to wait for any disk read ops or anything else =
you&#39;d use a promise for to resolve anyway. JavaScript uses async to kee=
p the code from locking up the browser while waiting on this sort of stuff =
- but PHP outputs an HTML file (usually) and that&#39;s a one time event.=
=C2=A0 And if you move to any context outside the webserver=C2=A0page reque=
st model why use PHP at all?=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>As a user I rat=
her like not having to deal with async in PHP. While I can and do work with=
 it in JavaScript it is by far the part of the language I dislike the most.=
 If I&#39;ve got to deal with concurrency and thread issues I&#39;m writing=
 the project in Golang or some=C2=A0other compiled language - not PHP - bec=
ause if speed is that critical an interpreted scripting language is not the=
 correct solution.</div></div></div>

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