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Date: Wed, 21 May 2025 05:20:19 -0400
Message-ID: <CAEUnE0dVyQ9NQonEBU6wkKM+WsyLXt68jAGYjsz270w_Fa8=Fw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Module or Class Visibility, Season 2
To: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: tendoaki@gmail.com (Michael Morris)

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On Tue, May 20, 2025 at 6:18=E2=80=AFPM Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] <imsop.php@rw=
ec.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>
> On 20 May 2025 15:04:49 BST, Michael Morris <tendoaki@gmail.com> wrote:
> >The Problem: Interoperability.
> >
> >That's really it.  Scenario
> >Alice provides whatchamacallit A that depends on other whatchamacallit D
> to
> >work.
> >Bob provides whatchamacallit B that also depends on D.
> >Charles is using A and B.
> >D gets updated with a new incompatible API to its prior version.
> >Alice publishes an update which includes a security fix.
> >Bob retired.
> >Charles, who can't program, can't update to Alice's latest code. His sit=
e
> >eventually gets pwned.
>
> Let me correct something here. The whole reason I was bringing in the
> distinction between "module" and "container" is that B and C are one kind
> of thing, but D is a *different* kind of thing.
>
> D is something like Guzzle. There is zero motivation for Guzzle to be
> rewritten in a way that forces its dependencies to be isolated. It depend=
s
> on packages like "psr/http-client" whose *entire purpose* is to define
> interfaces that multiple packages agree on.
>
> A, meanwhile, isn't a thing at all; it's just any old PHP code


I'll stop you there.  You are deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote and
even a cursory glance at it makes that clear. You are not trying to be
constructive in any way, you're trolling.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g=
mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, May 20,=
 2025 at 6:18=E2=80=AFPM Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:imsop.=
php@rwec.co.uk">imsop.php@rwec.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
<br>
On 20 May 2025 15:04:49 BST, Michael Morris &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tendoaki@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tendoaki@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;The Problem: Interoperability.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;That&#39;s really it.=C2=A0 Scenario<br>
&gt;Alice provides whatchamacallit A that depends on other whatchamacallit =
D to<br>
&gt;work.<br>
&gt;Bob provides whatchamacallit B that also depends on D.<br>
&gt;Charles is using A and B.<br>
&gt;D gets updated with a new incompatible API to its prior version.<br>
&gt;Alice publishes an update which includes a security fix.<br>
&gt;Bob retired.<br>
&gt;Charles, who can&#39;t program, can&#39;t update to Alice&#39;s latest =
code. His site<br>
&gt;eventually gets pwned.<br>
<br>
Let me correct something here. The whole reason I was bringing in the disti=
nction between &quot;module&quot; and &quot;container&quot; is that B and C=
 are one kind of thing, but D is a *different* kind of thing. <br>
<br>
D is something like Guzzle. There is zero motivation for Guzzle to be rewri=
tten in a way that forces its dependencies to be isolated. It depends on pa=
ckages like &quot;psr/http-client&quot; whose *entire purpose* is to define=
 interfaces that multiple packages agree on.<br>
<br>
A, meanwhile, isn&#39;t a thing at all; it&#39;s just any old PHP code </bl=
ockquote><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ll stop you there.=C2=A0 You are deliber=
ately misrepresenting what I wrote and even a cursory glance at it makes th=
at clear. You are not trying to be constructive in any way, you&#39;re trol=
ling.</div></div></div>

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