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Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 15:57:25 +0100
To: internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Module or Class Visibility, Season 2
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From: imsop.php@rwec.co.uk ("Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]")



On 14 May 2025 14:24:57 BST, Michael Morris <tendoaki@gmail=2Ecom> wrote:
>Well, it's what Go calls "modules"=2E It's confusing because I was being
>truthful, not snarky, when I said "Ask 10 programmers for the definition =
of
>module and expect 12 answers=2E"  I'm self trained, so I expect to get my
>terms wrong from time to time=2E But I know enough to identify problems a=
nd
>needs and I've tried to be clear on that=2E

I don't know much about Go, but at a glance it uses a similar model to Jav=
aScript and Python where *classes don't have a universal name*, the names a=
re always local=2E That's not a different kind of module, it's a fundamenta=
lly different *language design*=2E

If you want to use two different versions of Guzzle in the same applicatio=
n, the first problem you need to solve has nothing to do with require, or a=
utoloading, or Phar files=2E The first problem you need to solve is that yo=
u now have two classes called \GuzzleHttp\Client, and that breaks a bunch o=
f really fundamental assumptions=2E=20

For example:=20
- plugin1 uses Guzzle v5, runs "$client1 =3D new \GuzzleHttp\Client", and =
returns it to the main application
- The main application passes $client1 to plugin2
- plugin2 uses Guzzle v4
plugin2 runs "$client2 =3D new \GuzzleHttp\Client"

$client1 and $client2 are instances of different classes, with the same na=
me! How does "instanceof" behave? What about "get_class"? What if you seria=
lize and unserialize?

I think if you changed the language enough that those questions didn't mat=
ter, it would be a language fork on the scale of Python 2 to 3, or even Per=
l 5 to Raku (originally called "Perl 6")=2E Every single application and li=
brary would have to be rewritten to use the new concept of what a class is=
=2E And most of them would get absolutely no benefit, because they *want* t=
o reference the same version of a class everywhere in the application=2E

That's why I think "containers" are the more useful comparison - you need =
some way to put not just plugin1 itself, but all the third-party code it ca=
lls, into some kind of sandbox, as though it was running in a separate proc=
ess=2E If you can control what classes can go into and out of that sandbox,=
 then in any piece of code, you don't end up with conflicting meanings for =
the same name - just as a Linux container can't open a network port directl=
y on the host=2E

Regards,
Rowan Tommins
[IMSoP]