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Date: Wed, 14 May 2025 09:24:57 -0400
Message-ID: <CAEUnE0d8QADSYv+OJMEceN4hdJNcNy=-GLvW-ZoNqoi6_2Lhxw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Module or Class Visibility, Season 2
To: internals@lists.php.net
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From: tendoaki@gmail.com (Michael Morris)

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On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 4:08=E2=80=AFAM Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] <imsop.php@rw=
ec.co.uk>
wrote:

>
> What Michael Morris is talking about is really a completely different
> concept - it's more like "containers", in the sense of Docker, Kubernetes=
,
> etc, where different sections of code can be isolated, and declare classe=
s
> with conflicting fully-qualified names. I don't think it's what most
> applications and libraries would want "modules" to be; it's probably best
> thought of as a completely separate feature.
>
>
Well, it's what Go calls "modules". It's confusing because I was being
truthful, not snarky, when I said "Ask 10 programmers for the definition of
module and expect 12 answers."  I'm self trained, so I expect to get my
terms wrong from time to time. But I know enough to identify problems and
needs and I've tried to be clear on that.

I'm currently reading up on Phar and seeing exactly how suited it would be
as a foundation for a module system. I've also been reading on how go
approaches things, but go has package management baked into the compiler -
PHP outsources this to userland. I'm going to guess that's largely because
of lack of staff - PHP has no large backers (leeches like Facebook that use
it heavily and could back it yes, but not backers) and Go has Google.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote g=
mail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, May 14,=
 2025 at 4:08=E2=80=AFAM Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:imsop.=
php@rwec.co.uk">imsop.php@rwec.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u><div><div><br></div><div>What Mi=
chael Morris is talking about is really a completely different concept -=C2=
=A0it&#39;s more like &quot;containers&quot;, in the sense of Docker, Kuber=
netes, etc, where different sections of code can be isolated, and declare c=
lasses with conflicting fully-qualified names. I don&#39;t think it&#39;s w=
hat most applications and libraries would want &quot;modules&quot; to be; i=
t&#39;s probably best thought of as a completely separate feature.</div><di=
v><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, it&#39;s what Go c=
alls &quot;modules&quot;. It&#39;s confusing because I was being truthful, =
not snarky, when I said &quot;Ask 10 programmers for the definition of modu=
le and expect 12 answers.&quot;=C2=A0 I&#39;m self trained, so I expect to =
get my terms wrong from time to time. But I know enough to identify problem=
s and needs and I&#39;ve tried to be clear on that.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>I&#39;m currently reading up on Phar and seeing exactly how suited it wou=
ld be as a foundation for a module system. I&#39;ve also been reading on ho=
w go approaches things, but go has package management baked into the compil=
er - PHP outsources this to userland. I&#39;m going to guess that&#39;s lar=
gely because of lack of staff - PHP has no large backers (leeches=C2=A0like=
 Facebook that use it heavily and could back it yes, but not backers) and G=
o has Google.</div><div><br></div></div></div>

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