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Date: Sun, 04 May 2025 16:37:23 -0500
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Modules, again.
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From: larry@garfieldtech.com ("Larry Garfield")

On Sun, May 4, 2025, at 4:25 PM, Michael Morris wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 5:19=E2=80=AFPM Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldt=
ech.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, May 4, 2025, at 2:34 AM, Michael Morris wrote:
>> > It's been 9 months. Been researching, working on other projects,=20
>> > mulling over=20
>> > points raised the last time I brought this up. And at the moment I=20
>> > don't think=20
>> > PHP 8.5 is in its final weeks so this isn't a distraction for that.=
 =20
>> > The=20
>> > previous discussion got seriously, seriously derailed and I got los=
t=20
>> > even though=20
>> > I started it. I'm not going to ask anyone to dig into the archives,=20
>> > let's just=20
>> > start afresh.
>>=20
>> This proposal requires:
>>=20
>> 1. Every module author to change their coding structure
>> 2. Every consumer of a package to change their coding structure
>> 3. Devs to abandon "it just works" autoloading and explicitly import =
packages.
>> 4. Abandoning 16 years of PSR-0/4 file convention in favor of "module=
 =3D file", which will almost certainly result in multi-thousand-line fi=
les even for clean, well-factored code.
>
> You're 4 for 4 on falsehoods. Care to actually read what I wrote=20
> because I know you're more intelligent and better than this and very=20
> disappointed.=20

> PHP Code -------------------------------------------------------------=
----------
>
> namespace MyModule;
>
> yield function sum(a, b) { return a + b; }
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------

Every module author changes their code.  (Which is reasonable.)

> PHP Code -------------------------------------------------------------=
----------
>
> use require 'mymodule.php';
>
> echo MyModule::sum(3, 4);
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------

Every caller changes their code, to use `use require` and to use the pse=
udo-class syntax to call the function.

> PHP Code -------------------------------------------------------------=
----------
>
> use sum require 'mymodule.php';
>
> echo sum(3, 4); // 7
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------

Removes the pseudo-class syntax, but still has the "use sum require..." =
change for the consumer.

As described, the implication is that the millions of existing

use Some\Class\Here;

lines in code in the wild will... not work if the Some\Class package bec=
omes a module?  I think that's what's implied, but it's not clear.  If t=
hat triggers autoloading, how does the autoloader know how to find it?  =
It needs to know the module name, which as described is the file name of=
 the module, not the class. =20

Since the module name is the file name, that means if a module has 50 in=
ternal classes, it must be in the same file.  Hence, giant files.

If those reads of your post are inaccurate, then please show with exampl=
es how they are inaccurate, because that is how I understood your propos=
al text at face value.

--Larry Garfield