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Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2025 16:19:19 +0200
Message-ID: <CADyq6sL6Mkv=aeprjaLk0+hnKMsxmCrGwuAMUUR2FOdwxX26hg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Concept: Lightweight error channels
To: Niels Dossche <dossche.niels@gmail.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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From: ocramius@gmail.com (Marco Pivetta)

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On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 at 14:24, Niels Dossche <dossche.niels@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 26/04/2025 09:17, Larry Garfield wrote:
>
> > * Exceptions are very expensive, the hierarchy is confusing, and
> handling them properly is a major pain.  Failing to handle them properly is
> very easy since you have no way of knowing what exceptions the code you're
> calling might throw, or its nested calls, etc.  That makes them poorly
> suited for mundane, predictable error conditions.
> I get the point of having checked exceptions, and I suppose it would be
> nice.
> Hierarchy: I don't think the hierarchy is that confusing, can you
> elaborate?
> Regarding performance however, rather than introducing yet another
> completely new concept to do almost the same thing, why not try to improve
> exception performance instead?
>

Came here to say the same.

Also: `Either`/`Option`/`Maybe` types, with some basic generics, even if
only at documentation + PHPStan/Psalm level?
I'm coming from months of Go development, and I really just want my
exceptions (with traces by default) back, tbh, even if it means performance
suffers.

I just opened a PR that makes instantiating exceptions much much faster,
> and this is only after like 15 mins of work. I'm sure there's even more to
> gain.


Nice!

Marco Pivetta

https://mastodon.social/@ocramius

https://ocramius.github.io/

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail=
_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, 27 Apr 2025=
 at 14:24, Niels Dossche &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dossche.niels@gmail.com">dos=
sche.niels@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">On 26/04/2025 09:17, Larry Garfield wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; * Exceptions are very expensive, the hierarchy is confusing, and handl=
ing them properly is a major pain.=C2=A0 Failing to handle them properly is=
 very easy since you have no way of knowing what exceptions the code you=
9;re calling might throw, or its nested calls, etc.=C2=A0 That makes them p=
oorly suited for mundane, predictable error conditions.<br>
I get the point of having checked exceptions, and I suppose it would be nic=
e.<br>
Hierarchy: I don&#39;t think the hierarchy is that confusing, can you elabo=
rate?<br>
Regarding performance however, rather than introducing yet another complete=
ly new concept to do almost the same thing, why not try to improve exceptio=
n performance instead?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Came here to say=
 the same.</div><div><br></div><div>Also: `Either`/`Option`/`Maybe` types, =
with some basic generics, even if only at documentation + PHPStan/Psalm lev=
el?</div><div>I&#39;m coming from months of Go development, and I really ju=
st want my exceptions (with traces by default) back, tbh, even if it means =
performance suffers.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa=
dding-left:1ex">
I just opened a PR that makes instantiating exceptions much much faster, an=
d this is only after like 15 mins of work. I&#39;m sure there&#39;s even mo=
re to gain.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Nice! <br></div><div><div><br c=
lear=3D"all"></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">Marco Pivetta <br><br><a href=3D"https://mastodon.social/@ocramius=
" target=3D"_blank">https://mastodon.social/@ocramius</a><br><br><a href=3D=
"https://ocramius.github.io/" target=3D"_blank">https://ocramius.github.io/=
</a></div></div></div>=C2=A0</div></div></div>

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