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In-Reply-To: <4669e994-fe7f-4c3b-9920-ef6ac0118f1f@rwec.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2025 12:50:26 +0200
Message-ID: <CAMW7n8D3fQ6ddFLSXRf2WfKiRFpSNZV9risuaPSG6h5+5_3neA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC - Stage 2
To: "Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]" <imsop.php@rwec.co.uk>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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From: edmond.ht@gmail.com (Edmond Dantes)

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>
>  Again, that's the *how*, not the *why*. We only need to "get rid of" the
parentheses if there's some reason to type them in the first place.
>
I=E2=80=99ve already understood that. You mean it=E2=80=99s not the reason,=
 but one of the
possible solutions.
But it=E2=80=99s one of the solutions that, from my point of view, causes l=
ess
surprise.
Because the alternatives like `spawn fn` and `spawn {}` seem more radical
to me compared to the current design.
In that case, perhaps `spawn_fn` or `spawn closure` would be better options=
.

>
> spawn ( fn() =3D> do_something( fetch_something($input) ) )();

Now this option, I=E2=80=99d say, looks realistic.

> spawn =3D> do_something( fetch_something($input) ) );

Looks good. But then, of course, it turns out that spawn plays two roles =
=E2=80=94
including defining a closure in the language. That specific point is what
makes me doubt it.
It's like the language has TWO keywords for creating a closure.

Essentially, no matter how you approach it, some compromise will have to be
made.
* Either accept potential confusion between a variable and a `function`,
* Or agree that a closure will have two forms, and everyone will have to
learn them.

If we go with the second option, then we can use both forms:

```php
spawn use {};
spawn =3D> code;
```

>
>  Again, though, this could easily be added later when a need becomes
> visible, as long as we don't do something weird now that closes the door
> on it.
>

I tend to agree. If there's doubt, it's better to postpone it.

> spawn =3D> $input |> fetch_something(...) |> do_something(...);

It can be made even cleaner by adding a parallelism operator.
That way, there=E2=80=99s no need to write `spawn` at all.

>
>  I suggest we leave this sub-thread here; there's plenty of other things
to discuss. :)
>

Ok!

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<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt;<br>&gt;=C2=A0

Again, that&#39;s the *how*, not the *why*. We only need to &quot;get rid o=
f&quot; the parentheses if there&#39;s some reason to type them in the firs=
t place.<br>&gt;<div>I=E2=80=99ve already understood that. You mean it=E2=
=80=99s not the reason, but one of the possible solutions. =C2=A0<br>But it=
=E2=80=99s one of the solutions that, from my point of view, causes less su=
rprise. =C2=A0<br>Because the alternatives like `spawn fn` and `spawn {}` s=
eem more radical to me compared to the current design. =C2=A0<br>In that ca=
se, perhaps `spawn_fn` or `spawn closure` would be better options.<br></div=
><div><br></div><div>&gt;<br>&gt; spawn ( fn() =3D&gt; do_something( fetch_=
something($input) ) )();</div><div><br></div><div>Now this option, I=E2=80=
=99d say, looks realistic.<br></div><div><br></div><div>&gt; spawn =3D&gt;=
=C2=A0do_something( fetch_something($input) ) );</div><br><div>Looks good. =
But then, of course, it turns out that <code>spawn</code> plays two roles =
=E2=80=94 including defining a closure in the language. That specific point=
 is what makes me doubt it.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div>It&#39;s like the languag=
e has TWO keywords for creating a closure.=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div>=
<div>Essentially, no matter how you approach it, some compromise will have =
to be made. =C2=A0<br>* Either accept potential confusion between a variabl=
e and a `function`, =C2=A0<br>* Or agree that a closure will have two forms=
, and everyone will have to learn them.<br><br>If we go with the second opt=
ion, then we can use both forms:<br><br>```php<br>spawn use {};<br>spawn =
=3D&gt; code;<br></div><div>```</div><div><br></div><div>&gt;<br>&gt;=C2=A0

Again, though, this could easily be added later when a need becomes<br>&gt;=
 visible, as long as we don&#39;t do something weird now that closes the do=
or<br>&gt; on it.<br>&gt;</div><div><br></div><div>I tend to agree. If ther=
e&#39;s doubt, it&#39;s better to postpone it.</div><div><br></div><div>&gt=
;=C2=A0<span style=3D"background-color:rgb(242,242,242);color:rgb(51,51,51)=
;font-family:&quot;Fira Mono&quot;,monospace;font-size:14px">spawn =3D&gt; =
$input |&gt; fetch_something(...) |&gt; do_something(...);</span></div><div=
><br></div>It can be made even cleaner by adding a parallelism operator. =
=C2=A0<br>That way, there=E2=80=99s no need to write `spawn` at all.<br><di=
v><br></div><div>&gt;<br>&gt;=C2=A0

I suggest we leave this sub-thread here; there&#39;s plenty of other things=
<br>to discuss. :)<br>&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Ok!</div></=
div>

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