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Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2025 20:28:50 +0200
Message-ID: <CAGwLL8XSzJH3D+gaiuisB8Ap7jgvt7sCLZLPByV_EEnM0w1p7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC - Stage 2
To: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>, Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com>, 
	php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: i.miroslavov@gmail.com (Iliya Miroslavov Iliev)

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>>
>>  This example highlights one of the concerns I have with fibers and this
approach in general. That example will still execute synchronously, taking
file_get_contents() * 3, even though it is in a coroutine function.
>>

>Is that really a problem? If a programmer wrote the code `$x =3D 1 / 0`,
then the issue is definitely not with the division operation.

It is a problem. IO file operations are async on linux. You have to
manually type the `sync` command to be sure if you copy something
to another drive. So having a file_get_contents x3 will surely be executed
but file_put_contents will delay

On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 7:57=E2=80=AFPM Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.=
com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 20, 2025, at 2:06 AM, Edmond Dantes wrote:
> > This is simply a wonderful explanation. I will be able to go through
> each point.
> >
> > But before that, let's recall what spawn essentially is.
> > Spawn is an operation that creates a separate execution context and
> > then calls a function within it.
> > To perform this, spawn requires two things:
> > 1. **callable** =E2=80=93 something that can be called; this is an expr=
ession
> > or the result of an expression.
> > 2. **argument list** =E2=80=93 a list of arguments.
>
> Nitpick to make sure we're talking about the same thing: What does
> "Separate execution context" mean here?  Because a keyword whose
> description includes "and" is always a yellow flag at least.  (See also:
> readonly.)  One thing should not do two things.  Unless what you mean her=
e
> is it creates a logical coroutine, within the current async scope.
>
> (I suspect this level of nitpickiness is where the confusion between us
> lies.)
>
> --Larry Garfield
>


--=20
Iliya Miroslavov Iliev
i.miroslavov@gmail.com

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><span class=3D"gmail-im" style=3D"color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">&gt;&gt;<br>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0 This example highlights one of the =
concerns I have with fibers and this approach in general. That example will=
 still execute synchronously, taking file_get_contents() * 3, even though i=
t is in a coroutine function.<br>&gt;&gt;</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><=
/span><div dir=3D"ltr">&gt;Is that really a problem? If a programmer wrote =
the code `$x =3D 1 / 0`, then the issue is definitely not with the division=
 operation.<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr">It is a pr=
oblem. IO file operations are async on linux. You have to manually type the=
 `sync` command to be sure if you copy something to=C2=A0another drive. So =
having a file_get_contents x3 will surely be executed but file_put_contents=
 will delay=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_cont=
ainer"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 20, 2025 at 7:57=
=E2=80=AFPM Larry Garfield &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">la=
rry@garfieldtech.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204=
);padding-left:1ex">On Thu, Mar 20, 2025, at 2:06 AM, Edmond Dantes wrote:<=
br>
&gt; This is simply a wonderful explanation. I will be able to go through e=
ach point.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; But before that, let&#39;s recall what spawn essentially is.=C2=A0 <br=
>
&gt; Spawn is an operation that creates a separate execution context and <b=
r>
&gt; then calls a function within it.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; To perform this, spawn requires two things:<br>
&gt; 1. **callable** =E2=80=93 something that can be called; this is an exp=
ression <br>
&gt; or the result of an expression.=C2=A0 <br>
&gt; 2. **argument list** =E2=80=93 a list of arguments.=C2=A0 <br>
<br>
Nitpick to make sure we&#39;re talking about the same thing: What does &quo=
t;Separate execution context&quot; mean here?=C2=A0 Because a keyword whose=
 description includes &quot;and&quot; is always a yellow flag at least.=C2=
=A0 (See also: readonly.)=C2=A0 One thing should not do two things.=C2=A0 U=
nless what you mean here is it creates a logical coroutine, within the curr=
ent async scope.<br>
<br>
(I suspect this level of nitpickiness is where the confusion between us lie=
s.)<br>
<br>
--Larry Garfield<br>
</blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><div><br></div><span class=
=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_s=
ignature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Iliya Miroslavov Iliev<div><a href=3D"mailto:i.m=
iroslavov@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#6aa84f">i.miroslavov=
@gmail.com</font></a><br></div></div></div>

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