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Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2025 08:44:00 +0000
To: internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC - Stage 2
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From: imsop.php@rwec.co.uk ("Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]")



On 19 March 2025 07:07:36 GMT, Edmond Dantes <edmond=2Eht@gmail=2Ecom> wro=
te:
>Continuing the discussion from [[PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC - Stage 2](
>https://discourse=2Ethephp=2Efoundation/t/php-dev-php-true-async-rfc-stag=
e-2/1573/24
>):
>
>[quote=3D"Rowan_Tommins_IMSoP, post:24, topic:1573"]


Just a quick reminder that although various mirrors exist, this is primari=
ly a mailing list, and email clients won't parse whatever unholy mix of mar=
kdown and BBCode that is=2E

A bit of punctuation for things like emphasis etc is fine, but how it look=
s on https://news-web=2Ephp=2Enet/php=2Einternals is going to be how it loo=
ks for a lot of contributors=2E


>I meant that the `defer` operator is needed in the language not only in t=
he
>context of coroutines but in functions in general=2E In essence, `defer` =
is a
>shortened version of `try-finally`, which generates more readable code=2E
>
>Since that's the case, I shouldn't describe this operator in this RFC=2E
>However, `onExit()` and `defer` are essentially almost the same=2E


Ah, I get it now, thanks=2E


>spawn [with <scope>] <callable>[(<parameters>)];
>
>spawn (getClosure());
>
>spawn sleep(5);

You're cheating again - you've put an extra pair of brackets around one ex=
pression and not the other, and assumed they'll work differently, but that'=
s not the grammar you proposed=2E

It's possible we could resolve the ambiguity that way - if it's in bracket=
s, it's evaluated as an expression - but then all the other examples need t=
o be changed to match, including this one:

>spawn function() use(): string { return "string"; };

Instead you'd have to write this:=20

spawn (function() use(): string { return "string"; });

In the end, it still comes back to "there are two grammar rules here, how =
do we name them?" Only this time its "spawn" vs "spawn()" rather than "spaw=
n" vs "spawn call", or all the other examples I've used=2E




>[quote=3D"Rowan_Tommins_IMSoP, post:24, topic:1573"]
>The only caveat is that calls using the nullsafe ?-> operator are forbidd=
en
>- for reasons directly related to the feature, not because Nikita thought
>they were ugly=2E
>[/quote]
>
>Yes, that's exactly what we'd like to avoid=2E


Sorry, what is exactly what we'd like to avoid?


>
>[quote=3D"Rowan_Tommins_IMSoP, post:24, topic:1573"]
>But most likely you'd still want a separate syntax for a direct function
>call, however you want to spell it:
>[/quote]
>
>**Exactly!** It turns out that the expression `spawn something();`
>can be interpreted as if `something` is a PHP constant rather than a
>function=2E


It's more fundamental than that: function_call and expr are overlapping gr=
ammars, so having a rule that spawn can be followed by either of them, with=
 different meanings, leads to ambiguities=2E You can carefully tune the gra=
mmar to avoid those, but then the user has to learn those rules; or you can=
 just use two keywords, which I don't remember you actually responding to a=
s a suggestion=2E



Rowan Tommins
[IMSoP]