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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2025 12:30:34 -0700
Message-ID: <CAJF_ukXsyh9k+JTOiuJvYJ5Brq41vYBb-8+Cg6rfH9yE459Pbg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Never parameters
To: Daniel Scherzer <daniel.e.scherzer@gmail.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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From: matthewfonda@gmail.com (Matt Fonda)

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On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 12:07=E2=80=AFPM Daniel Scherzer <
daniel.e.scherzer@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi internals,
>
> I'd like to start discussion on a new RFC about allowing `never` for
> parameter types when declaring a method.
>
> * RFC: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/never-parameters-v2
> * Implementation: https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/18016
>
> -Daniel
>

Hi Daniel,

I believe this feature essentially amounts to "add methods which can never
be called", which in my mind makes no sense. If a method types against an
interface, and that interface uses a method with a never parameter type,
then we cannot actually call that method. We'd need to know the specific
concrete type, which defeats the purpose of using an interface in the first
place.

See note from Nikita [1] from previous discussion which expands on this
idea more, and shows that generics is really what we need here.

[1] https://externals.io/message/115712#115719

Best regards,
--Matthew

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"></div></div><div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 12:07=E2=80=AFPM Daniel Scherze=
r &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:daniel.e.scherzer@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">dani=
el.e.scherzer@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div></div></div><div><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"></div></div></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">Hi internals,<div><br></div><div>I&#39;d like to start discus=
sion on a new RFC about allowing `never` for parameter types when declaring=
 a method.</div><div><br></div><div>* RFC:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://wiki.php=
.net/rfc/never-parameters-v2" target=3D"_blank">https://wiki.php.net/rfc/ne=
ver-parameters-v2</a></div><div>* Implementation:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://g=
ithub.com/php/php-src/pull/18016" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/php/=
php-src/pull/18016</a></div><div><br></div><div>-Daniel</div></div></blockq=
uote><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Hi Daniel,</div><div><br></div><div>I believe t=
his feature essentially amounts to &quot;add methods which can never be cal=
led&quot;, which in my mind makes no sense. If a method types against an in=
terface, and that interface uses a method with a never parameter type, then=
 we cannot actually call that method. We&#39;d need to know the specific co=
ncrete type, which defeats the purpose of using an interface in the first p=
lace.</div><div><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">See note from Nikita [1] from p=
revious discussion which expands on this idea more, and shows that generics=
 is really what we need here.</div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href=3D"https=
://externals.io/message/115712#115719" target=3D"_blank">https://externals.=
io/message/115712#115719</a></div><div><br></div><div>Best regards,</div><d=
iv>--Matthew</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

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