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Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2025 00:37:08 +0100
To: "Bob Weinand" <bobwei9@hotmail.com>, internals@lists.php.net
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: short and inner classes
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From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

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On Fri, Mar 14, 2025, at 19:16, Bob Weinand wrote:
> Hey Rob,
>=20
> On 6.3.2025 00:11:22, Rob Landers wrote:
>> Hello PHP Internals,
>>=20
>> I'd like to introduce my RFC for discussion: https://wiki.php.net/rfc=
/short-and-inner-classes
> A small note on the Reflection section: it should include a method giv=
ing you an array of all contained ReflectionClasses: $reflection->getInn=
erClasses()
>=20
> And likely also a method to get an inner class by name $reflection->ge=
tInnerClass("Foo").
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Bob
>=20

Classes don't actually know their inner classes -- they aren't like prop=
erties. In essence, an inner class is just a regular class with a funny =
name and access to scopes it wouldn't normally have access to. We could =
probably add `getOuterClass(): string` if that is useful. It is possible=
 to keep track of a class's inner classes, but then that introduces a pa=
radox chicken/egg type problem during construction, which may or may not=
 be a problem.

On Fri, Mar 14, 2025, at 22:08, Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] wrote:
> The other thing I wonder is whether the original reason why `::` wasn'=
t=20
> used as the namespace separator still applies, and needs to be account=
ed=20
> for here?
>=20
> --=20
> Rowan Tommins
> [IMSoP]
>=20

I'm replying to you Rowan, but also to the whole conversation on the top=
ic of separating inner classes. I was going to add this example to the R=
FC: https://gist.github.com/withinboredom/c007e35d3b042b87b02ac550db589a=
0c, but I decided to get food poisoning for the last few hours instead. =
:joy:

Where using it looks like this:

$user =3D new User:>Builder("Rob")->withEmail("rob@bottled.codes")->buil=
d();

The user builder is intrinsically tied to the User class itself, it isn'=
t just a namespace. The user builder shares scope with the user class an=
d is able to be the only way to construct a user (barring reflection). S=
o, I'm inclined to agree with Bob here:

> Inner classes are supposed to be intrinsically tied to their containin=
g class, and making it work like a namespace reduces the association a l=
ot.

Furthermore, I'm relatively certain this approach can be slightly modifi=
ed to support "namespace private/protected" classes, in general. So, tha=
t will also possibly be a follow-up RFC and having them mixed up will co=
mplicate things. In any case, I am not a fan of using the namespace sepa=
rator here.

I could get behind `::`, but I feel that it introduces human ambiguity. =
I don't believe it would introduce compiler ambiguity, but as a human, I=
 have to hope the programmers are using a style that makes it obvious wh=
at are inner classes and what are constants/methods.

I don't know, I keep coming back to `:>` ... it isn't perfect, and it is=
 somewhat annoying to type, but I don't have anything better.

=E2=80=94 Rob
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">=0Ap.=
MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Fri, Mar =
14, 2025, at 19:16, Bob Weinand wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite=
" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><p>Hey Rob,<br></p><div class=3D"qt-moz-cite-pref=
ix">On 6.3.2025 00:11:22, Rob Landers=0A      wrote:<br></div><blockquot=
e type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:aae32397-0567-417f-adbe-6b663d5c49ae@app.fas=
tmail.com"><div>Hello PHP Internals,<br></div><div><br></div><div>I'd li=
ke to introduce my RFC for discussion:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://wiki.php.=
net/rfc/short-and-inner-classes" class=3D"qt-moz-txt-link-freetext">http=
s://wiki.php.net/rfc/short-and-inner-classes</a><br></div></blockquote><=
p>A small note on the Reflection section: it should include a=0A      me=
thod giving you an array of all contained ReflectionClasses:=0A      $re=
flection-&gt;getInnerClasses()<br></p><p>And likely also a method to get=
 an inner class by name=0A      $reflection-&gt;getInnerClass("Foo").<br=
></p><p><br></p><p>Bob<br></p></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Classes d=
on't actually know their inner classes -- they aren't like properties. I=
n essence, an inner class is just a regular class with a funny name and =
access to scopes it wouldn't normally have access to. We could probably =
add `getOuterClass(): string` if that is useful. It is possible to keep =
track of a class's inner classes, but then that introduces a paradox chi=
cken/egg type problem during construction, which may or may not be a pro=
blem.<br></div><div><br></div><div>On Fri, Mar 14, 2025, at 22:08, Rowan=
 Tommins [IMSoP] wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" sty=
le=3D""><div>The other thing I wonder is whether the original reason why=
 `::` wasn't&nbsp;<br></div><div>used as the namespace separator still a=
pplies, and needs to be accounted&nbsp;<br></div><div>for here?<br></div=
><div><br></div><div>--&nbsp;<br></div><div>Rowan Tommins<br></div><div>=
[IMSoP]<br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'm rep=
lying to you Rowan, but also to the whole conversation on the topic of s=
eparating inner classes. I was going to add this example to the RFC:&nbs=
p;<a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/withinboredom/c007e35d3b042b87b02ac=
550db589a0c">https://gist.github.com/withinboredom/c007e35d3b042b87b02ac=
550db589a0c</a>, but I decided to get food poisoning for the last few ho=
urs instead. :joy:<br></div><div><br></div><div>Where using it looks lik=
e this:<br></div><div><br></div><div>$user =3D new User:&gt;Builder("Rob=
")-&gt;withEmail("<a href=3D"mailto:rob@bottled.codes">rob@bottled.codes=
</a>")-&gt;build();<br></div><div><br></div><div>The user builder is int=
rinsically tied to the User class itself, it isn't just a namespace. The=
 user builder shares scope with the user class and is able to be the onl=
y way to construct a user (barring reflection). So, I'm inclined to agre=
e with Bob here:<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=
<span style=3D"white-space-collapse:preserve;text-wrap-mode:wrap;">Inner=
 classes are supposed to be intrinsically tied to their containing class=
, and making it work like a namespace reduces the association a lot.</sp=
an><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Furthermore, I'm relativel=
y certain this approach can be slightly modified to support "namespace p=
rivate/protected" classes, in general. So, that will also possibly be a =
follow-up RFC and having them mixed up will complicate things. In any ca=
se, I am not a fan of using the namespace separator here.<br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>I could get behind `::`, but I feel that it introduces hu=
man ambiguity. I don't believe it would introduce compiler ambiguity, bu=
t as a human, I have to hope the programmers are using a style that make=
s it obvious what are inner classes and what are constants/methods.<br><=
/div><div><br></div><div>I don't know, I keep coming back to `:&gt;` ...=
 it isn't perfect, and it is somewhat annoying to type, but I don't have=
 anything better.<br></div><div><br></div><div id=3D"sig121229152">=E2=80=
=94 Rob<br></div></body></html>
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