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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2025 22:54:17 +0200
Message-ID: <CAGwLL8VZCyffaCpSPnsSM_RHCWFoLkWKNfKM039K9g_2U03wVg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: PHP True Async RFC
To: Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com>
Cc: "Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]" <imsop.php@rwec.co.uk>, internals@lists.php.net
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From: i.miroslavov@gmail.com (Iliya Miroslavov Iliev)

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Edmond,
The language barrier is bigger (because of me, I cannot properly explain
it) so I will keep it simple. Having "await" makes it sync, not async. In
hardware we use interrupts but we have to do it grandma style... The main
loop checks from variables set on the interrupts which is async. So you
have a main loop that checks a variable but that variable is set from
another part of the processor cycle that has nothing to do with the main
loop (it is not fire and forget style it is in real time). Basically you
can have a standard `int main()`function that is sync because you can delay
in it (yep sleep(0)) and while you block it you have an event that
interrupts a function that works on another register which is independent
from the main function. More details of this will be probably not
interesting so I will stop. If you want to make async PHP with multiple
processes you have to check variables semaphored to make it work.

On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 8:16=E2=80=AFPM Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com> =
wrote:

> >
> >  I think the same thing applies to scheduling coroutines: we want the
> Scheduler to take over the "null fiber",
> >
>
> Yes, you have quite accurately described a possible implementation.
> When a programmer loads the initial index.php, its code is already
> running inside a coroutine.
> We can call it the main coroutine or the root coroutine.
>
> When the index.php script reaches its last instruction, the coroutine
> finishes, execution is handed over to the Scheduler, and then everything
> proceeds as usual.
>
> Accordingly, if the Scheduler has more coroutines in the queue, reaching
> the last line of index.php does not mean the script terminates. Instead,
> it continues executing the queue until... there is nothing left to execut=
e.
>
> >
> > At that point, the relationship to a block syntax perhaps becomes
> clearer:
> >
>
> Thanks to the extensive discussion, I realized that the implementation
> with startScheduler raises too many questions, and it's better to
> sacrifice a bit of backward compatibility for the sake of language elegan=
ce.
>
> After all, Fiber is unlikely to be used by ordinary programmers.
>


--=20
Iliya Miroslavov Iliev
i.miroslavov@gmail.com

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Edmond,<br>The language barrier is bigger (because of me, =
I cannot properly explain it) so I will keep it simple. Having &quot;await&=
quot; makes it sync, not async. In hardware we use interrupts but we have t=
o do it grandma style... The main loop checks from variables set on the int=
errupts which is async. So you have a main loop that checks a variable but =
that variable is set from another part of the processor cycle that has noth=
ing to do with the main loop (it is not fire and forget style it is in real=
 time). Basically you can have a standard `int main()`function that is sync=
 because you can delay in it (yep sleep(0)) and while you block it you have=
 an event that interrupts a function that works on another register which i=
s independent from the main function. More details of this will be probably=
 not interesting so I will stop.=C2=A0If you want to make async PHP with mu=
ltiple processes you have to check variables semaphored to make it work.</d=
iv><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Mar 9, 2025 at 8:16=E2=80=AFPM Edmond Dantes &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:edmond.ht@gmail.com">edmond.ht@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>&gt;<br>&gt;=C2=A0

I think the same thing applies to scheduling coroutines: we want the Schedu=
ler to take over the &quot;null fiber&quot;,<br>&gt;<div><br></div><div><p>=
Yes, you have quite accurately described a possible implementation.<br>
When a programmer loads the initial <code>index.php</code>, its code is alr=
eady running inside a coroutine.<br>
We can call it the main coroutine or the root coroutine.</p>
<p>When the <code>index.php</code> script reaches its last instruction, the=
 coroutine finishes, execution is handed over to the Scheduler, and then ev=
erything proceeds as usual.</p>
<p>Accordingly, if the Scheduler has more coroutines in the queue, reaching=
 the last line of <code>index.php</code> does not mean the script terminate=
s. Instead, it continues executing the queue until... there is nothing left=
 to execute.</p><p>&gt;<br>&gt;=C2=A0<font color=3D"#333333" face=3D"Fira M=
ono, monospace"><span style=3D"font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(242,242,=
242)">At that point, the relationship to a block syntax perhaps becomes cle=
arer:<br></span></font>&gt;</p><p>Thanks to the extensive discussion, I rea=
lized that the implementation with <code>startScheduler</code> raises too m=
any questions, and it&#39;s better to sacrifice a bit of backward compatibi=
lity for the sake of language elegance.</p><p>
</p><p>After all, <code>Fiber</code> is unlikely to be used by ordinary pro=
grammers.</p></div></div>
</blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><div><br></div><span class=
=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_s=
ignature"><div dir=3D"ltr">Iliya Miroslavov Iliev<div><a href=3D"mailto:i.m=
iroslavov@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><font color=3D"#6aa84f">i.miroslavov=
@gmail.com</font></a><br></div></div></div>

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