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Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2025 18:56:57 +0200
Message-ID: <CAMW7n8Dzin0sYioWFCJHOfaLASLwuSggijV2=2qQA5tO4a0itA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC
To: Daniil Gentili <daniil.gentili@gmail.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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From: edmond.ht@gmail.com (Edmond Dantes)

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>
>  I can give you several examples where such logic is used in Amphp
libraries, and it will break if they are invoked within an async block.
>

Got it, it looks like I misunderstood the post due to my focus. So,
essentially, you're talking not so much about wait_all itself, but rather
about the parent-child vs. free model.

This question is what concerns me the most right now.

If you have real examples of how this can cause problems, I would really
appreciate it if you could share them. Code is the best criterion of truth.

>
>  You misunderstand:
>

Yes, I misunderstood. It would be interesting to see the code with the
destructor to analyze this approach better.

*Let me summarize the current state for today:*

   1.

   I am abandoning startScheduler and the idea of preserving backward
   compatibility with await_all or anything else in that category. The
   scheduler will be initialized implicitly, and this does not concern
   user-land. Consequently, the spawn function() code will work everywhere
   and always.
   2.

   I will not base the implementation on Fiber (perhaps only on the
   low-level part). Instead of Fiber, there will be a separate class. There
   will be no changes to Fiber at all. This decision follows the principle
   of Win32 COM/DCOM: old interfaces should never be changed. If an old
   interface needs modification, it should be given a new name. This should
   have been done from the start.
   3.

   I am abandoning low-level objects in PHP-land (FiberHandle, SocketHandle
   etc). Over time, no one has voted for them, which means they are
   unnecessary. There might be a low-level interface for compatibility with
   Revolt.
   4.

     It might be worth restricting microtasks in PHP-land and keeping them
   only for C code. This would simplify the interface, but we need to ensur=
e
   that it doesn=E2=80=99t cause any issues.

The remaining question on the agenda: deciding which model to choose =E2=80=
=94
*parent-child* or the *Go-style model*.

Thanks

---

Ed

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<div dir=3D"ltr">&gt;<br>&gt;=C2=A0

I can give you several examples where such logic is used in Amphp libraries=
, and it will break if they are invoked within an async block.<br>&gt;<br><=
br><div><p>Got it, it looks like I misunderstood the post due to my focus. =
So, essentially, you&#39;re talking not so much about <code>wait_all</code>=
 itself, but rather about the parent-child vs. free model.</p>
<p>This question is what concerns me the most right now.</p>
<p>If you have real examples of how this can cause problems, I would really=
 appreciate it if you could share them. Code is the best criterion of truth=
.</p><p>&gt;<br>&gt;=C2=A0

You misunderstand:=C2=A0<br>&gt;<br><br></p><p>Yes, I misunderstood. It wou=
ld be interesting to see the code with the destructor to analyze this appro=
ach better.</p><p><b>Let me summarize the current state for today:</b></p><=
ol>
<li>
<p>I am abandoning <code>startScheduler</code> and the idea of preserving b=
ackward compatibility with <code>await_all</code> or anything else in that =
category. The scheduler will be initialized implicitly, and this does not c=
oncern user-land. Consequently, the <code>spawn function()</code> code will=
 work everywhere and always.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>I will not base the implementation on <code>Fiber</code> (perhaps only o=
n the low-level part). Instead of <code>Fiber</code>, there will be a separ=
ate class. There will be no changes to <code>Fiber</code> at all. This deci=
sion follows the principle of Win32 COM/DCOM: old interfaces should never b=
e changed. If an old interface needs modification, it should be given a new=
 name. This should have been done from the start.</p>
</li>
<li>
<p>I am abandoning low-level objects in PHP-land (FiberHandle, SocketHandle=
 etc). Over time, no one has voted for them, which means they are unnecessa=
ry. There might be a low-level interface for compatibility with Revolt.</p>
</li><li><p>=C2=A0 It might be worth restricting microtasks in PHP-land and=
 keeping them only for C code. This would simplify the interface, but we ne=
ed to ensure that it doesn=E2=80=99t cause any issues.=C2=A0=C2=A0</p></li>
</ol><p>


</p><p>The remaining question on the agenda: deciding which model to choose=
 =E2=80=94=C2=A0<strong>parent-child</strong> or the <strong>Go-style model=
</strong>.</p><p>Thanks</p><p>---</p><p>Ed</p></div></div>

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