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Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2025 10:38:47 +0100
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Subject: Re: Fwd: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC
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From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

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On Fri, Mar 7, 2025, at 09:48, Edmond Dantes wrote:
>=20
> >
> >  As far as I know, all current SAPIs follow one of two patterns:
> >
>=20
> It seems that my example, although taken from real life, is more of an=
 anti-pattern. Let's take a real example that is not an anti-pattern.
>=20
> There is a B2B CRM built on services. Services are classes instantiate=
d in memory only once via DI, and all that. We process requests. Request=
s are executed within a logical *Scope*. The scope depends on the *TOKEN=
* and reflects the following entities:
>=20
>  =E2=80=A2 *User Profile*
>  =E2=80=A2 *Company Settings*
> We have two implementation options:
>=20
>  1. Pass the user profile and company settings to every method.
>  2. Use some static variable to make the semantics shorter.
> When the application runs in separate processes, there are no issues. =
What do we do?
>=20
>  1. Pass the `UserProfile` object into DI.
>  2. Pass the `CompanySettings` object into DI.
> Everyone is happy. If it=E2=80=99s a *long-running* process, everyone =
is twice as happy because the already loaded services and resolved DI ar=
e reused multiple times for handling requests. Memory copying is reduced=
, and for fast requests, we get a nice performance boost. This is especi=
ally pleasant for users with a good internet connection.
>=20
> However, this model will not work if each request is processed in a se=
parate coroutine. There are two possible solutions:
>=20
>  1. Pass the *"environment objects"* explicitly through function calls=
 (*I=E2=80=99d like to see developers doing this and staying in a good m=
ood*).
>  2. Use something else.

This sounds like you are not using DI meant for fibers/multiple requests=
 at the same time. DI used in large projects like the one that comes wit=
h Symfony is NOT compatible with this model. These are the basic require=
ments for DI that needs to handle multiple requests on long-running scri=
pts:

- you need "volatile" injections,
- you need "singleton" injections,
- and you need "per request" injections.

"Volatile" injections are injections that provide a new one every time y=
ou ask for it and "per request" injections are singleton, but only for t=
he current request (every request gets a new one and only one for the li=
fetime of the request). The only "services" running between requests and=
 not new'd up every request are "singleton" injections. These are statel=
ess services providing generic interfaces (such as sending emails, notif=
ications, etc).

This is how .NET does it as well (just with different names), and as far=
 as I know, absolutely no DI library in PHP does it this way, and only p=
rivate, custom built DI does it this way; the ones that are using fibers=
 already.

=E2=80=94 Rob
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso=
Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>On Fri, Mar 7, 2025, at 09:48, Edmond Dantes wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"><div=
 class=3D"qt-gmail_quote qt-gmail_quote_container"><div><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;=0A=0AAs f=
ar as I know, all current SAPIs follow one of two patterns:<br></div><di=
v>&gt;<br></div><div><br></div><div><p>It seems that my example, althoug=
h taken from real life, is more of an anti-pattern. Let's take a real ex=
ample that is not an anti-pattern.<br></p><p>There is a B2B CRM built on=
 services. Services are classes instantiated in memory only once via DI,=
 and all that. We process requests. Requests are executed within a logic=
al <b>Scope</b>. The scope depends on the <b>TOKEN</b> and reflects the =
following entities:<br></p><ul><li><b>User Profile</b><br></li><li><b>Co=
mpany Settings</b><br></li></ul><p>We have two implementation options:<b=
r></p><ol><li>Pass the user profile and company settings to every method=
.<br></li><li>Use some static variable to make the semantics shorter.<br=
></li></ol><p>When the application runs in separate processes, there are=
 no issues. What do we do?<br></p><ol><li>Pass the <code>UserProfile</co=
de> object into DI.<br></li><li>Pass the <code>CompanySettings</code> ob=
ject into DI.<br></li></ol><p>Everyone is happy. If it=E2=80=99s a <b>lo=
ng-running</b> process, everyone is twice as happy because the already l=
oaded services and resolved DI are reused multiple times for handling re=
quests. Memory copying is reduced, and for fast requests, we get a nice =
performance boost. This is especially pleasant for users with a good int=
ernet connection.<br></p><p>However, this model will not work if each re=
quest is processed in a separate coroutine. There are two possible solut=
ions:<br></p><ol><li>Pass the <b>"environment objects"</b> explicitly th=
rough function calls (<i>I=E2=80=99d like to see developers doing this a=
nd staying in a good mood</i>).<br></li><li>Use something else.<br></li>=
</ol></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This=
 sounds like you are not using DI meant for fibers/multiple requests at =
the same time. DI used in large projects like the one that comes with Sy=
mfony is NOT compatible with this model. These are the basic requirement=
s for DI that needs to handle multiple requests on long-running scripts:=
<br></div><div><br></div><div>- you need "volatile" injections,<br></div=
><div>- you need "singleton" injections,<br></div><div>- and you need "p=
er request" injections.<br></div><div><br></div><div>"Volatile" injectio=
ns are injections that provide a new one every time you ask for it and "=
per request" injections are singleton, but only for the current request =
(every request gets a new one and only one for the lifetime of the reque=
st). The only "services" running between requests and not new'd up every=
 request are "singleton" injections. These are stateless services provid=
ing generic interfaces (such as sending emails, notifications, etc).<br>=
</div><div><br></div><div>This is how .NET does it as well (just with di=
fferent names), and as far as I know, absolutely no DI library in PHP do=
es it this way, and only private, custom built DI does it this way; the =
ones that are using fibers already.<br></div><div><br></div><div id=3D"s=
ig121229152">=E2=80=94 Rob<br></div></body></html>
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