Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:126578
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <CAMW7n8AJckEDzhGv9BdjNhq8zAdCqb4HsVr56vGi+izw50X6Dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEKnhAHv_3bR+Fnmg=mGXuDJhpmAjTMwj0VhAt8TOcjiD+YJzw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAEKnhAHv_3bR+Fnmg=mGXuDJhpmAjTMwj0VhAt8TOcjiD+YJzw@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2025 14:23:20 +0200
Message-ID: <CAMW7n8DHFb6innyn6VigDtQGb9EYu9-H_v5m_XGJWHEQG+q2OA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC
To: Jakub Zelenka <bukka@php.net>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001c1144062f97750d"
From: edmond.ht@gmail.com (Edmond Dantes)

--0000000000001c1144062f97750d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hello, Jakub.

>
> I thought about this quite a bit and I think we should first try to
clarify the primary design that we want to go for.
> What I mean is whether we would like to ever support a true concurrency
(threads) in it.
> If we think it would be worth it (even thought it wouldn't be initially
supported), then we should take it into the account from the beginning and
add restrictions to prevent race conditions.
>

If you mean multitasking, i.e., executing coroutines in different OS
threads, then this feature is far beyond the scope of this RFC and would
require significant changes to the PHP core (Memory manager first).
And even if we imagine that such changes are made, eliminating data races
without breaking the language is, to put it mildly, a questionable task
from the current perspective.

Although this RFC raises the question of whether a concurrent version
without multitasking is worth implementing at all, my opinion is positive.
For PHP, this could be sufficient as a language primarily used in the
context of asynchronous I/O, whereas a multitasking version may never
happen.

I will likely pose this as a direct question in the final part of this
RFC.  Thanks!

Ed.

>

--0000000000001c1144062f97750d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hello,=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,31,31);font-s=
ize:0.875rem;font-weight:bold;font-family:&quot;Google Sans&quot;,Roboto,Ro=
botoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Jakub.</span></div><div><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(31,31,31);font-size:0.875rem;font-weight:bold;font-family:&qu=
ot;Google Sans&quot;,Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif"><br></s=
pan></div><div><font color=3D"#1f1f1f" face=3D"Google Sans, Roboto, RobotoD=
raft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">&gt;<br>=
&gt;=C2=A0</span></font>I thought about this quite a bit and I think we sho=
uld first try to clarify the primary design that we want to go for. <br>&gt=
; What I mean is whether we would like to ever support a true concurrency (=
threads) in it. <br>&gt; If we think it would be worth it (even thought it =
wouldn&#39;t be initially supported), then we should take it into the accou=
nt from the beginning and add restrictions to prevent race conditions.</div=
><div><font color=3D"#1f1f1f" face=3D"Google Sans, Roboto, RobotoDraft, Hel=
vetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-size:14px">&gt;<br><br></spa=
n></font>If you mean multitasking, i.e., executing coroutines in different =
OS threads, then this feature is far beyond the scope of this RFC and would=
 require significant changes to the PHP core (Memory manager first).<br>And=
 even if we imagine that such changes are made, eliminating data races with=
out breaking the language is, to put it mildly, a questionable task from th=
e current perspective.=C2=A0=C2=A0<font color=3D"#1f1f1f" face=3D"Google Sa=
ns, Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-=
size:14px"></span></font></div><div><br></div><div>Although this RFC raises=
 the question of whether a concurrent version without multitasking is worth=
 implementing at all, my opinion is positive. For PHP, this could be suffic=
ient as a language primarily used in the context of asynchronous I/O, where=
as a multitasking version may never happen.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=
I will likely pose this as a direct question in the final part of this RFC.=
=C2=A0 Thanks!</div><div><br></div><div>Ed.</div><div class=3D"gmail_quote =
gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote></div></div>

--0000000000001c1144062f97750d--