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References: <E0EFE00D-07E7-47A1-89C2-865E90812E7B@daniil.it> <1741011949553.2796973485.548949007@gmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2025 17:03:25 +0100
Message-ID: <CAOWwgpkOCKuDPsid=kr6arcUFw7F_+KD_X=qAX_aKn9G94CHKg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] PHP True Async RFC
To: Edmond Dantes <edmond.ht@gmail.com>
Cc: Daniil Gentili <daniil@daniil.it>, internals@lists.php.net
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From: nicolas.grekas+php@gmail.com (Nicolas Grekas)

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Hi Edmond,

Thanks for sharing the huge amount of work that went into this!

I would really prefer it to be always enabled, no fallback at all, because
> as I said, it will make absolutely no difference to legacy, non-async
> projects that do not use fibers, but it will avoid a split ecosystem
> scenario.
>
>
> I'm not arguing at all that avoiding the call to this function is a good
> solution. I=E2=80=99m on your side. The only question is *how* to achieve=
 this
> technically.
>
> Could you describe an example of *"ecosystem split"* in the context of
> this function? What exactly is the danger?
>

Not sure it's an answer to this question but in Symfony's HttpClient, we
have an amphp-based implementation that's working both outside and inside
an event loop:
- inside means amphp's scheduler already started, and then each request is
scheduled thanks to amphp's http client
- outside means Symfony's code is going to trigger amphp's event loop
internally.

The target DX is that when outside any event loop, we're still able to
leverage fibers to provide concurrency, for requests only, and when inside
an event loop, requests run concurrently to any other things that the loop
monitors.

Is that something that could be achieved with your proposal?
If not, maybe that's the split we're wondering about?

Nicolas

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Edmond,</div><div><br></div>Thanks for sharing the=
 huge amount of=C2=A0work that went=C2=A0into this!<div><br><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padd=
ing-left:1ex"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:2px sol=
id rgb(0,0,255);padding-left:1ex"><div>I would really prefer it to be alway=
s enabled, no fallback at all, because as I said, it will make absolutely n=
o difference to legacy, non-async projects that do not use fibers, but it w=
ill avoid a split ecosystem scenario.</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div=
><p>I&#39;m not arguing at all that avoiding the call to this function is a=
 good solution. I=E2=80=99m on your side. The only question is <strong>how<=
/strong> to achieve this technically.</p><p>Could you describe an example o=
f <strong>&quot;ecosystem split&quot;</strong> in the context of this funct=
ion? What exactly is the danger?</p></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
Not sure it&#39;s an answer to this=C2=A0question but in Symfony&#39;s Http=
Client, we have an amphp-based implementation that&#39;s working both outsi=
de and inside an event loop:</div><div>- inside means amphp&#39;s scheduler=
 already started, and then each request is scheduled thanks to amphp&#39;s=
=C2=A0http client</div><div>- outside means Symfony&#39;s code is going to =
trigger amphp&#39;s=C2=A0event loop internally.</div><div><br></div><div>Th=
e target DX is that when outside any event loop, we&#39;re still able to le=
verage fibers to provide concurrency, for requests only, and when inside an=
 event loop, requests run concurrently to any other things that the loop mo=
nitors.</div><div><br></div><div>Is that something that could be achieved w=
ith your proposal?</div><div>If not, maybe that&#39;s the split we&#39;re w=
ondering about?</div><div><br></div><div>Nicolas</div></div></div></div></d=
iv>

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