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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Vibe check: array shapes
In-Reply-To: <15994089-a8cb-4909-8f6c-b679b88efaab@app.fastmail.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2025 17:53:10 +0100
Cc: PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Message-ID: <51D666D0-039A-4260-A61B-192B7D3F8E63@garsi.de>
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To: Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes>
From: alwin@garsi.de (Alwin Garside)

On 1 Mar 2025, at 08:37, Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Alwin,
>=20
> You may be interested in http://wiki.php.net/rfc/records, whose goal =
from the beginning was a new type that behaved like arrays (value =
semantics, copy on write) as well as the ability to attach behavior to =
them.
>=20
> I=E2=80=99ve since abandoned it due to the poor reception it got on =
the list and decided to pursue inner classes instead. However, I spent =
nearly a year thinking through that RFC, so feel free to pick my brain =
via email, or a call.=20
>=20
> The first implementation didn=E2=80=99t use classes at all, instead =
were implemented on arrays and enforced an array shape. This meant that =
records were a subtype of arrays (so you could pass a record as an =
argument in lieu of an array). This worked pretty well, but feedback I =
got from colleagues challenged me to add the ability for behavior. So, I =
had to abandon that implementation. So, if you look at that RFC and =
remove all the behavior, you=E2=80=99re basically left with a record =
keyword and the ability to specify types and props.=20
>=20
> The biggest challenges with that implementation (and array shapes in =
general), happen to be around WHEN to do type checking and how to get a =
handle on references. Further, there=E2=80=99s quite a few parts of php =
that reach into the implementation of arrays and do something different =
than the canonical implementation (opcache, is a good example here) that =
can end up breaking things in fun ways. Particularly if you somehow end =
up with one of these in one of the magic global arrays.
>=20
> Anyway, best of luck to you and don=E2=80=99t hesitate to reach out!
>=20
> =E2=80=94 Rob

Hey Rob,

I did stumble upon your Records RFC at some point, but I felt it tries =
to solve a different problem, because it provides a nominal interface =
rather than a structural interface like I have in mind, never mind =
behavior.

But thanks either way for offering your help! I might contact you just =
to ask some things about the internals of PHP, mostly out of curiosity. =
:-)

Alwin=