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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2025 22:57:45 +0000
Message-ID: <CANNiG7goUN0Unk_afaEHOOCTuVdYh1N94Z3ZTXHsOxFNkP8qag@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Vibe check: array shapes
To: Alwin Garside <alwin@garsi.de>
Cc: PHP Internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: bilge@scriptfusion.com (Bilge)

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Generics

On Fri, 28 Feb 2025, 22:55 Alwin Garside, <alwin@garsi.de> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Long time listener, first time caller here.
>
> Last week I had a shower thought about how it would be neat if we could
> declare array shapes in PHP, and use them to provide structural interface=
s
> for arrays.
>
> After all, arrays are one of PHPs strongest features, and anyone who has
> ever tried to use arrays/maps in other languages after getting used to th=
e
> versatility of PHP arrays will have to admit that nothing comes close to
> their flexibility and ease of use.
>
> However, ironically, most of my friends, colleagues and fellow PHP devs
> usually tend to shun PHP arrays, which has led to the widespread use of
> Collection classes and the like. The usual argument is that arrays don=E2=
=80=99t
> provide any way to declare their structure, and thus don=E2=80=99t provid=
e the
> ergonomics of autocompletion (even if you declare the array shapes with
> docblock annotations IDE support is iffy at best) and don=E2=80=99t provi=
de any
> form of runtime type checking.
>
> To me, providing structural interfaces using shapes seems like a perfect
> fit to the flexibility of arrays. I imagine you'd define them in a simila=
r
> way to an interface, declaring and typing array elements rather than
> methods or property hooks. They'd provide a way to validate the contents =
of
> an array at runtime, and offer static analyzers and IDEs a robust way to =
do
> type inspections and provide autocompletions for arrays.
>
> Of course my first assumption was that other people much smarter than me
> probably already had this idea, so I started doing my due diligence and
> discovered that a draft for a Shapes RFC was written by Kacper Donat back
> in 2021 [1], but unfortunately seems to have since been abandoned. This i=
s
> a shame because it lines up about 90% with my ideas of what array shapes
> should look like in PHP.
>
> I'm unable to find any reference to this RFC on the PHP Wiki nor could I
> find any threads discussing it in the PHP-Internals archive, so I assume
> they simply never got around to completing it, or there was some discussi=
on
> elsewhere that prompted them to abandon the RFC.
>
> Anyway, I would love to try and push this idea forward =E2=80=93 either b=
y
> contacting Kacpar, or writing my own RFC =E2=80=93 and have a shot at imp=
lementing
> a proof of concept, but first I would like to get a feel for whether this
> proposal would find much footing here.
>
> So please let me know how you feel about the idea of array shapes in PHP,
> and perhaps read the draft written by Kacper Donat [1] for a much more
> eloquent example of what I'm trying to propose here.
>
> Thank you all very much in advance.
>
> Kindest regards,
> Alwin Garside
>
> [1] https://hackmd.io/@kadet/php-rfc-shapes
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Generics=C2=A0</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_q=
uote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, 28 Feb 2025, =
22:55 Alwin Garside, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alwin@garsi.de">alwin@garsi.de</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello,<br>
<br>
Long time listener, first time caller here.<br>
<br>
Last week I had a shower thought about how it would be neat if we could dec=
lare array shapes in PHP, and use them to provide structural interfaces for=
 arrays.<br>
<br>
After all, arrays are one of PHPs strongest features, and anyone who has ev=
er tried to use arrays/maps in other languages after getting used to the ve=
rsatility of PHP arrays will have to admit that nothing comes close to thei=
r flexibility and ease of use.<br>
<br>
However, ironically, most of my friends, colleagues and fellow PHP devs usu=
ally tend to shun PHP arrays, which has led to the widespread use of Collec=
tion classes and the like. The usual argument is that arrays don=E2=80=99t =
provide any way to declare their structure, and thus don=E2=80=99t provide =
the ergonomics of autocompletion (even if you declare the array shapes with=
 docblock annotations IDE support is iffy at best) and don=E2=80=99t provid=
e any form of runtime type checking.<br>
<br>
To me, providing structural interfaces using shapes seems like a perfect fi=
t to the flexibility of arrays. I imagine you&#39;d define them in a simila=
r way to an interface, declaring and typing array elements rather than meth=
ods or property hooks. They&#39;d provide a way to validate the contents of=
 an array at runtime, and offer static analyzers and IDEs a robust way to d=
o type inspections and provide autocompletions for arrays.<br>
<br>
Of course my first assumption was that other people much smarter than me pr=
obably already had this idea, so I started doing my due diligence and disco=
vered that a draft for a Shapes RFC was written by Kacper Donat back in 202=
1 [1], but unfortunately seems to have since been abandoned. This is a sham=
e because it lines up about 90% with my ideas of what array shapes should l=
ook like in PHP.<br>
<br>
I&#39;m unable to find any reference to this RFC on the PHP Wiki nor could =
I find any threads discussing it in the PHP-Internals archive, so I assume =
they simply never got around to completing it, or there was some discussion=
 elsewhere that prompted them to abandon the RFC.<br>
<br>
Anyway, I would love to try and push this idea forward =E2=80=93 either by =
contacting Kacpar, or writing my own RFC =E2=80=93 and have a shot at imple=
menting a proof of concept, but first I would like to get a feel for whethe=
r this proposal would find much footing here.<br>
<br>
So please let me know how you feel about the idea of array shapes in PHP, a=
nd perhaps read the draft written by Kacper Donat [1] for a much more eloqu=
ent example of what I&#39;m trying to propose here.<br>
<br>
Thank you all very much in advance.<br>
<br>
Kindest regards,<br>
Alwin Garside<br>
<br>
[1] <a href=3D"https://hackmd.io/@kadet/php-rfc-shapes" rel=3D"noreferrer n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://hackmd.io/@kadet/php-rfc-shapes</a><br=
>
</blockquote></div>

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