Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:126326
Feedback-ID: ifab94697:Fastmail
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2025 12:16:40 +0100
To: MrMeshok <ilyaorlov124@gmail.com>, "Mihail Liahimov" <91liahim@gmail.com>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
Message-ID: <81ba09d5-d8fa-4c26-8ef0-d4b7bf0de52a@app.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: 
 <CALWFqqBFJr2E-8s7eGsZ=MOFGpaa7rsgcqrSU0QB5g6zs_yRdQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: 
 <CAJWOiuNQ+ue-ZyY3EfnEQGo9JJ5mjf=tByxp31M__N71_ODy6A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALWFqqBFJr2E-8s7eGsZ=MOFGpaa7rsgcqrSU0QB5g6zs_yRdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] RFC: Not Null Assertion Operator
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary=783993af0b774812b72fbebc5ad3e378
From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

--783993af0b774812b72fbebc5ad3e378
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Fri, Feb 7, 2025, at 10:21, MrMeshok wrote:
> >
> > Examples of potentially using in PHP:
> > Without this operator we writing this code:
> >
> > $foo =3D ...
> >
> > if ($foo =3D=3D=3D null) {
> >     throw new FooIsNullException();
> > }
> >
> > $foo->bar.
> >
> > With this operator:
> >
> > $foo!->bar
> > $foo!->someProperty->method();
> > $foo!->someProperty->anotherProperty!->method();
>=20
> I see where you're coming from, in my code I had to deal with a lot of
> APIs with models which have nullable properties, but they shouldn't be
> null if some conditions are met.
> So I work with them in this way
> ```php
> if ($response->code =3D=3D=3D ResponseCode::Success) {
>     // order and quantity are nullable
>     return $response->data->order->quantity ?? throw new
> UnexpectedResponseException($response);
>=20
>     // With method calls you would need to add nullsafe operators
>     // order and date are nullable
>     return $response->data->order?->date?->format('Y-m-d') ?? throw
> new UnexpectedResponseException($response);
> }
> ```
> UnexpectedResponseException is just an exception that keeps faulty
> response, so I can catch it and act on it, or it just gets logged and
> I can show producers of API that they have a problem.
>=20
> I see a point in !-> operator if it would work just like that. Throws
> a specific error that has an object that triggered this error.
>=20

Hello,

I feel like that is more of an architecture problem than a programming o=
ne though. Instead of constantly checking if the conditions are right, u=
se php's type system instead, so it would read more like:

if ($response instanceof SuccessfulResponse) {
  return $response->data->order->quantity;
}

throw new UnexpectedResponseException($response);

I'd argue that having an "undefined" aka "null" quantity in a model at a=
ll is rather strange as that doesn't seem to represent any possible real=
ity outside of a computer (unless you are dealing with Schrodinger's cat=
 or other quantum effects).

=E2=80=94 Rob
--783993af0b774812b72fbebc5ad3e378
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso=
Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Fri, Feb 7, =
2025, at 10:21, MrMeshok wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D=
"qt" style=3D""><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; Examples of potentially usi=
ng in PHP:<br></div><div>&gt; Without this operator we writing this code=
:<br></div><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; $foo =3D ...<br></div><div>&gt;<=
br></div><div>&gt; if ($foo =3D=3D=3D null) {<br></div><div>&gt;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; throw new FooIsNullException();<br></div><div>&gt; }<br=
></div><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt; $foo-&gt;bar.<br></div><div>&gt;<br>=
</div><div>&gt; With this operator:<br></div><div>&gt;<br></div><div>&gt=
; $foo!-&gt;bar<br></div><div>&gt; $foo!-&gt;someProperty-&gt;method();<=
br></div><div>&gt; $foo!-&gt;someProperty-&gt;anotherProperty!-&gt;metho=
d();<br></div><div><br></div><div>I see where you're coming from, in my =
code I had to deal with a lot of<br></div><div>APIs with models which ha=
ve nullable properties, but they shouldn't be<br></div><div>null if some=
 conditions are met.<br></div><div>So I work with them in this way<br></=
div><div>```php<br></div><div>if ($response-&gt;code =3D=3D=3D ResponseC=
ode::Success) {<br></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // order and quantity a=
re nullable<br></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; return $response-&gt;data-&=
gt;order-&gt;quantity ?? throw new<br></div><div>UnexpectedResponseExcep=
tion($response);<br></div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // With=
 method calls you would need to add nullsafe operators<br></div><div>&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; // order and date are nullable<br></div><div>&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp; return $response-&gt;data-&gt;order?-&gt;date?-&gt;format('Y-m-d=
') ?? throw<br></div><div>new UnexpectedResponseException($response);<br=
></div><div>}<br></div><div>```<br></div><div>UnexpectedResponseExceptio=
n is just an exception that keeps faulty<br></div><div>response, so I ca=
n catch it and act on it, or it just gets logged and<br></div><div>I can=
 show producers of API that they have a problem.<br></div><div><br></div=
><div>I see a point in !-&gt; operator if it would work just like that. =
Throws<br></div><div>a specific error that has an object that triggered =
this error.<br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Hel=
lo,<br></div><div><br></div><div>I feel like that is more of an architec=
ture problem than a programming one though. Instead of constantly checki=
ng if the conditions are right, use php's type system instead, so it wou=
ld read more like:<br></div><div><br></div><div>if ($response instanceof=
 SuccessfulResponse) {<br></div><div>&nbsp; return $response-&gt;data-&g=
t;order-&gt;quantity;<br></div><div>}<br></div><div><br></div><div>throw=
 new UnexpectedResponseException($response);<br></div><div><br></div><di=
v>I'd argue that having an "undefined" aka "null" quantity in a model at=
 all is rather strange as that doesn't seem to represent any possible re=
ality outside of a computer (unless you are dealing with Schrodinger's c=
at or other quantum effects).<br></div><div><br></div><div id=3D"sig1212=
29152">=E2=80=94 Rob<br></div></body></html>
--783993af0b774812b72fbebc5ad3e378--