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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2025 22:37:14 +0100
Message-ID: <CAK7R4azXE=XT4yuaEjMKH1jRmHSaAQ-ocDL17Q_Ow+9TijoC2A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] BLAKE3 hash redux
To: =?UTF-8?Q?Tim_D=C3=BCsterhus?= <tim@bastelstu.be>
Cc: PHP Internals List <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: hans@loltek.net (Hans Henrik Bergan)

On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 at 21:54, Tim D=C3=BCsterhus <tim@bastelstu.be> wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> (Hans, apologies for the duplicate copy, I accidentally did not send the
> first reply to the list)
>
> Am 2025-01-24 20:39, schrieb Hans Henrik Bergan:
> > Can we add the BLAKE3 hash?
> >
> > Created a PR here: https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/13194
> > Created a RFC draft here: https://wiki.php.net/rfc/blake3
> >
> > BLAKE3 is a cryptographic hash function based on the SHA3-finalist
> > BLAKE, offering SHA3-256-like security at much higher speed.
> > Benchmarks from /ext/hash/bench.php highlight BLAKE3's performance: it
> > is over four times faster than SHA3-256 on AMD Ryzen 9 7950x:
> > https://wiki.php.net/_detail/rfc/output_5_.png
>
> Thank you for your RFC. I'm a little confused by the benchmark results.
> According to
> https://www.amd.com/de/products/processors/desktops/ryzen/7000-series/amd=
-ryzen-9-7950x.html,
> the Ryzen 9 7950x should support SHA-NI, which should make SHA-256 much
> faster than SHA-1. On my i7-1365U I get SHA-256 results that are
> competitive with BLAKE3 and with SHA-256 being a well-established
> algorithm, the benefit of having BLAKE3 becomes much smaller when also
> considering that will likely remain under much less scrunity of the
> cryptographic community.

BLAKE3 keeping up with dedicated SHA CPU instructions (i.e SHA-NI) is
impressive.
ARM is getting more and more common, and I don't think ARM has SHA
instructions (yet?) tho.

BLAKE3 offers security superior to SHA2 and comparable to SHA3, among
the 3, only SHA2 is vulnerable to length extension attacks.

>      blake3       0.010877
>      sha3-256     0.052112
On your system, it seems BLAKE3 is 4.7 times (almost 5 times?) faster
than sha3-256, interesting.

> Is your benchmark perhaps not reflecting the latest changes with PHP
> 8.4? SHA-NI support was added in
> https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/15152.

ah yes, the benchmarks is from commit
https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/13194/commits/187c8e96383bf3b792c45a476=
9c6f795db0e86a6
dating to 19 january 2024 (the benchmark is in the commit message), 6
months prior to https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/15152
... I tried getting BLAKE3 added back in january 2024, but ran out of steam=
.


> As for the RFC itself: I suggest to already add the (closed) voting
> doodle to the proposed voting choices section. The way the section is
> currently worded doesn't make sense, because it implies two distinct
> votes.

like this I guess:
<doodle title=3D"Integrate BLAKE3?" auth=3D"divinity76" voteType=3D"single"
closed=3D"true">
   * Yes
   * No
</doodle>

added.