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Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 21:27:30 +0000
To: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
Cc: php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discussion] Make objects unpackable by default
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From: internals@gpb.moe ("Gina P. Banyard")

On Thursday, 14 November 2024 at 17:24, Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.=
com> wrote:

> On Thu, Nov 14, 2024, at 7:37 AM, Christian Schneider wrote:
>=20
> > Am 14.11.2024 um 10:59 schrieb Marco Pivetta ocramius@gmail.com:
> >=20
> > > On Thu, 14 Nov 2024, 11:29 MrMeshok, ilyaorlov124@gmail.com wrote:
> > >=20
> > > > Hello, Internals!
> > > >=20
> > > > As you know if you try to unpack a regular object (`...$object`) yo=
u will get an error: Only arrays and Traversables can be unpacked.
> > > > I don't really see a reason for this restriction, because foreach o=
n objects works perfectly fine, so I made a feature request on GitHub to ch=
ange this behavior (https://github.com/php/php-src/issues/16038) and was ad=
vised to see opinions on this here.
> > > > So, what do you think? And does this change require RFC?
> > >=20
> > > TBH, foreach on objects is already quite an abomination in itself =
=F0=9F=98=AC
> >=20
> > It is a bit less weird if you use value objects or json data in object =
form.
> > I would be careful to judge how other people use the language, just say=
ing ;-)
> >=20
> > - Chris
>=20
>=20
> Judging how one should use a language is a core component of language des=
ign.
>=20
> I'm with Marco on this one, and I'd be more than happy to get rid of fore=
ach($object), too. It's way, way more complicated a topic than you think.
>=20
> How does visibility play into it?
> Should hooks be invoked or no?
> Do references play into anything?
>=20
> Those are some of the questions we had to deal with for hooks and foreach=
(). It's non-trivial. You'd need to address all the same edgy issues here, =
too.
>=20
> And that's assuming it's even a good idea, which I don't think it is. If =
you are using a value object to define unordered arguments, just pass the v=
alue object itself. If the receiving function can't handle that, then it is=
 simple enough that you don't need a value object. If that's not the case, =
then your code design is bad and the language should not try to paper over =
that for you. Either simplify the function or adapt it to use a value objec=
t directly. (With union types you can even do so in a BC fashion much of th=
e time.)

Agreed, this bites us constantly when needing to reason about what an "obje=
ct" is in PHP.
Similar to array it mixes the concept of a struct, with that of a reference=
 value, and "overloading" various behaviours (e.g. iterators and ArrayAcces=
s).
It is *extremely* simple to go from foreach ($object as $prop) {} to forear=
ch(get_object_vars($object) as $prop) {}
and mandating this would resolve a lot of complexity, be that from the pers=
pective of what is "possible" or not to do, and from an engine PoV.


Best regards,

Gina P. Banyard