Newsgroups: php.internals
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Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2024 18:40:45 -0600
To: Derick Rethans <derick@php.net>
Cc: "=?utf-8?Q?internals=40lists.php.net?=" <internals@lists.php.net>, 
 =?utf-8?Q?Pedro_Magalh=C3=A3es?= <mail@pmmaga.net>, Larry Garfield
 <larry@garfieldtech.com>
Message-ID: <3BE04517-DF71-401C-B29F-9BCBB0B16DB0@getmailspring.com>
In-Reply-To: <AF8C68C7-A2CD-47DA-9834-A5E5DB154ACE@php.net>
References: <AF8C68C7-A2CD-47DA-9834-A5E5DB154ACE@php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC][Vote] Policy on third party code
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From: john@coggeshall.org (John Coggeshall)

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> And we're in 2024 now and nobody writes PHP code without Composer. Without this change, we can't use any composer available library for PHP.NET sites, nor even mention it in the documentation.
> That's bonkers.
>

100% agree with you.
> This is counter productive, because the current rule is: don't use anything, or mention anything, third party.
Per the very first line of the RFC...
> The PHP project has had a long-standing but unwritten, vague, and inconsistently-applied proscription against mentioning or using third-party PHP projects, on the grounds that it implies some sort of endorsement over other third-party projects.
I guess my point here is when I read this RFC it moves the needle from "unwritten, vague, and inconsistently-applied" to a much more firm "don't use them, don't talk about them" on frameworks -- which I think is a mistake. It also seems entirely haphazard in the "what's allowed" vs. "what's not". in terms of packages based on Larry's (probably correct) opinion of what's mainstream as a solution for particular problems.. All of this is wildly inconsistent is my point. Also what happens if I decide to use a composer package component that's really a part of Laravel or Symfony or ....? Is that allowed or not?
I wouldn't have even blinked on a "yes" vote here if the RFC was to allow composer.. it's this other half-baked stuff that I am balking at... I'd very much like to see this RFC stripped of those bits if possible.
John
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<br><blockquote><div><div>And we're in 2024 now and nobody writes PHP cod=
e without Composer. Without this change, we can't use any composer availa=
ble library for PHP.NET sites, nor even mention it in the documentation.<=
/div><div>That's bonkers.</div></div></blockquote><div><br><div>100% agre=
e with you. </div><br><blockquote>This is counter productive, because the=
 current rule is: don't use anything, or mention anything, third party.</=
blockquote><br><div>Per the very first line of the R=46C... </div><br><bl=
ockquote>The PHP project has had a long-standing but unwritten, vague, an=
d inconsistently-applied proscription against mentioning or using third-p=
arty PHP projects, on the grounds that it implies some sort of endorsemen=
t over other third-party projects.</blockquote><br><div>I guess my point =
here is when I read this R=46C it moves the needle from =22unwritten, vag=
ue, and inconsistently-applied=22 to a much more firm =22don't use them, =
don't talk about them=22 on frameworks -- which I think is a mistake. It =
also seems entirely haphazard in the =22what's allowed=22 vs. =22what's n=
ot=22. in terms of packages based on Larry's (probably correct) opinion o=
f what's mainstream as a solution for particular problems.. All of this i=
s wildly inconsistent is my point. Also what happens if I decide to use a=
 composer package component that's really a part of Laravel or Symfony or=
 ....=3F Is that allowed or not=3F </div><br><div>I wouldn't have even bl=
inked on a =22yes=22 vote here if the R=46C was to allow composer.. it's =
this other half-baked stuff that I am balking at... I'd very much like to=
 see this R=46C stripped of those bits if possible. </div><br><div>John</=
div></div>
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