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Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2024 14:05:48 +0100
Message-ID: <CAO__Xv7Nhujk4_=V4Ud2E-zm7BGx8K4grnNn+gZ4qA-J-zPr0A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Discuss] Impact of E.O 14071 on PHP
To: Vincent de Lau <vincent@delau.nl>
Cc: Krinkle <krinkle@fastmail.com>, 
	"internals@lists.php.net" <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: fenniclog@gmail.com (fennic log)

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On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 at 13:20, Vincent de Lau <vincent@delau.nl> wrote:

> > From: Krinkle <krinkle@fastmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 3:44 AM
> >
> > On Thu, 24 Oct 2024, at 01:25, fennic log wrote:
> > > It was recently brought to my attention that the USA has passed an
> Executive Order which prohibits Russian citizens from contributing to
> software used in the USA. [=E2=80=A6]
> > >
> > > From what I have been reading + excerpts from linux group, PHP has to
> take action to comply with this order.
> >
> > The order prohibits "United States persons" from investing in or sellin=
g
> services to any person located in or business owned within Russia.
> >
> > It makes no mention of what Russian citizens may do with their time,
> what (unpaid) contributions United States people can accept, or anything
> about what software/services are used inside the USA. Even if it did, the=
re
> would still be a question of juristiction.
> >
> > The Linux Foundation is incorporated in Oregon, USA. If they perceive
> themselves as owning the Linux project, or as providing it to businesses,
> or as paying for engineers working on Linux, then I can see why they migh=
t
> need to act on this order. It seems like they would need to close ties wi=
th
> (paid) contributors and vendors from Russia, as they would otherwise be
> paying (investing in) people or businesses in Russia for IT services, whi=
ch
> the order prohibits.
> >
> > Which of these aspects apply to PHP?
>
> Yesterday I came across this video from Brian Lunduke [1][2] that suggest=
s
> it may have to do with legal precedent around GPL licensed software. It
> sounds like a complex legal matter that would probably best be assessed b=
y
> a lawyer familiar with US trade laws. Linus apparently was also advised b=
y
> legal people to take this step. [3] This might also be relevant for the P=
HP
> Foundation and Perforce. Maybe they can help assess the situation.
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Vincent de Lau
>
> [1]:
> https://lunduke.locals.com/post/6263331/sanctions-hit-linux-kernel-russia=
n-programmers-banned
> [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DL5Ec5jrpLVk
> [3]: https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-Torvalds-Russian-Devs


It's also worth adding, US government uses PHP on various government and
agency websites.

Such examples include;
https://www.dni.gov/index.php
https://www.usa.gov/index.php
https://www.eia.gov/index.php

etc etc.
Which means they could have a very deep interest in PHP complying with
those orders. Which is what might have happened with linux, safe to assume
the US government uses linux in various systems and really pushed linux to
comply with the order.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_attr">On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 at 13:20, Vincent de Lau &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:vincent@delau.nl">vincent@delau.nl</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px soli=
d rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">&gt; From: Krinkle &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:krinkle@fastmail.com" target=3D"_blank">krinkle@fastmail.com</a>&gt; <br=
>
&gt; Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2024 3:44 AM<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Thu, 24 Oct 2024, at 01:25, fennic log wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; It was recently brought to my attention that the USA has passed a=
n Executive Order which prohibits Russian citizens from contributing to sof=
tware used in the USA. [=E2=80=A6]<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; From what I have been reading + excerpts from linux group, PHP ha=
s to take action to comply with this order.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The order prohibits &quot;United States persons&quot; from investing i=
n or selling services to any person located in or business owned within Rus=
sia.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It makes no mention of what Russian citizens may do with their time, w=
hat (unpaid) contributions United States people can accept, or anything abo=
ut what software/services are used inside the USA. Even if it did, there wo=
uld still be a question of juristiction.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; The Linux Foundation is incorporated in Oregon, USA. If they perceive =
themselves as owning the Linux project, or as providing it to businesses, o=
r as paying for engineers working on Linux, then I can see why they might n=
eed to act on this order. It seems like they would need to close ties with =
(paid) contributors and vendors from Russia, as they would otherwise be pay=
ing (investing in) people or businesses in Russia for IT services, which th=
e order prohibits.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Which of these aspects apply to PHP?<br>
<br>
Yesterday I came across this video from Brian Lunduke [1][2] that suggests =
it may have to do with legal precedent around GPL licensed software. It sou=
nds like a complex legal matter that would probably best be assessed by a l=
awyer familiar with US trade laws. Linus apparently was also advised by leg=
al people to take this step. [3] This might also be relevant for the PHP Fo=
undation and Perforce. Maybe they can help assess the situation.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Kind regards,<br>
Vincent de Lau<br>
<br>
[1]: <a href=3D"https://lunduke.locals.com/post/6263331/sanctions-hit-linux=
-kernel-russian-programmers-banned" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://lunduke.locals.com/post/6263331/sanctions-hit-linux-kernel-russian-pr=
ogrammers-banned</a><br>
[2]: <a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DL5Ec5jrpLVk" rel=3D"noref=
errer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DL5Ec5jrpLVk</a><=
br>
[3]: <a href=3D"https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-Torvalds-Russian-Devs" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linus-To=
rvalds-Russian-Devs</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s also worth=
 adding, US government uses PHP on various government and agency websites.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Such examples include;</div><div><a href=3D"https:=
//www.dni.gov/index.php">https://www.dni.gov/index.php</a></div><div><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.usa.gov/index.php">https://www.usa.gov/index.php</a></div>=
<div><a href=3D"https://www.eia.gov/index.php">https://www.eia.gov/index.ph=
p</a></div><div><br></div><div>etc etc.</div><div>Which means they could ha=
ve a very deep interest in PHP complying with those orders. Which is what m=
ight have happened with linux, safe to assume the US government uses linux =
in various systems and really pushed linux to comply with the order.</div><=
div><br></div></div></div>

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