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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2024 02:01:33 -0500
To: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>
Cc: php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Policy on 3rd party code
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From: john@coggeshall.org (John Coggeshall)

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> So banning "full" frameworks is my attempt at steering clear of the appearance of that kind of favoritism. Showing favoritism for Composer or Xdebug is, well, there's no competition to complain. PHPUnit is technically not the only testing framework on the market, but it has north of 90% share (and is used internally by some of the few others). But showing favoritism between Drupal, Wordpress, TYPO3, Concrete5, and Joomla gets a lot dicier.
>

I think we are overloading the word "framework" here. I would suggest something along the lines of the following definitions:
A Web Application Platform: A fully-functional application written in PHP, often and perhaps exclusively with the purpose of building websites with little to no coding (excluding the notion of custom extensions or plugins to the application).
A PHP Framework: A collection of libraries bundled together that, by themselves, are not a functional application but rather as a whole provide the scaffolding to build an application on top of via code.
I personally can understand the argument against PHP proper seeming to endorse a Web Application Platform, but I think its entirely reasonable for PHP to internally use A PHP Framework if it happens to make the lives of people easier.
Coogle
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<blockquote><div><div>So banning =22full=22 frameworks is my attempt at s=
teering clear of the appearance of that kind of favoritism. Showing favor=
itism for Composer or Xdebug is, well, there's no competition to complain=
. PHPUnit is technically not the only testing framework on the market, bu=
t it has north of 90% share (and is used internally by some of the few ot=
hers). But showing favoritism between Drupal, Wordpress, TYPO3, Concrete5=
, and Joomla gets a lot dicier.</div><br></div></blockquote><div><br><div=
>I think we are overloading the word =22framework=22 here. I would sugges=
t something along the lines of the following definitions:</div><br><div>A=
 Web Application Platform: A fully-functional application written in PHP,=
 often and perhaps exclusively with the purpose of building websites with=
 little to no coding (excluding the notion of custom extensions or plugin=
s to the application).</div><br><div>A PHP =46ramework: A collection of l=
ibraries bundled together that, by themselves, are not a functional appli=
cation but rather as a whole provide the scaffolding to build an applicat=
ion on top of via code.</div><br><div>I personally can understand the arg=
ument against PHP proper seeming to endorse a Web Application Platform, b=
ut I think its entirely reasonable for PHP to internally use A PHP =46ram=
ework if it happens to make the lives of people easier.</div><br><div>Coo=
gle</div></div>
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