Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:125704
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <16d24095-564a-41f1-bf7f-cee9466f76ea@gmx.de> <00895e0eb252394d9d18c2dbaad4dd37@bastelstu.be>
 <c3d56dfb-a1cc-4687-862f-b32104919ac4@gmx.de> <CAL0xaBEd2zCC_3MNRyVWPSxDNo5imp4Kduobu0-HG3TGRjPFNQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <1cb086c9-99f0-40af-917e-fe708d611778@gmx.de>
In-Reply-To: <1cb086c9-99f0-40af-917e-fe708d611778@gmx.de>
Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2024 20:37:33 +0300
Message-ID: <CAL0xaBEgSRGVfrQrs-NfvyVS4pRBWm=j0LqqhhM4CF9WkWES7w@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] No more RFC implementations during beta phase
To: "Christoph M. Becker" <cmbecker69@gmx.de>
Cc: =?UTF-8?Q?Tim_D=C3=BCsterhus?= <tim@bastelstu.be>, internals@lists.php.net
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006b8d070623316f12"
From: arvids.godjuks@gmail.com (Arvids Godjuks)

--0000000000006b8d070623316f12
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, 28 Sept 2024 at 13:03, Christoph M. Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de>
wrote:

> On 27.09.2024 at 18:22, Arvids Godjuks wrote:
>
> > I agree with the general sentiment that alpha/beta/rc should be followe=
d
> in
> > their canonical form:
> > - Alpha - API/ABI gets broken, new stuff gets introduced, big
> > implementations happen
> > - Beta - new big additions are not allowed any more and introduced
> feature
> > stabilisation and bugfixing occurs (this is where you polish
> > implementations) and general feature freeze goes into effect
> > - RC - final testing, bugfixing and eventually release.
>
> Thank you, I like that!  Maybe something like this should be added to
> our release cycle documentation.
>
> > But I think the struggle we have with RFC's coming late and being a tim=
e
> > crunch is the timing of the release - November. The big problem is that
> the
> > vast majority of development and voting and RFC ironing out happens
> during
> > summer when a lot of people are on vacations, travel and in general are
> not
> > here. So come September/October - all hell breaks loose. And that happe=
ns
> > every single year.
>
> Interesting theory!  However, I believe the actual problem is that most
> of the developers have a long backlog, so everything gets pushed closed
> to the respective deadline.  And that leads to the stress around this
> time we indeed have for years.
>
> Christoph
>
>
Well, you always have a backlog and there is never enough time, and any
pre-release time is packed with people trying to finish things.
It's just over the 20 years I have been reading the list and especially
since the release RFC has been adopted, starting mid-august to
mid-September practically any sizeable RFC had at least a few people come
in with "I was away/vacation/travelling/etc" - basically summer activities.
This has been a constant and quite a few times some of the most experienced
core devs returned like that and found major problems in RFCs that required
everyone to scramble and try to solve it (and a few RFCs didn't make it
into release due to that if my memory serves me right).

All I wanna say I have noticed this trend and I think personally that
bumping the release by even 1-2 months would make things easier for
everyone. We can make the Beta phase start in November, so everyone who
wants to get an RFC into release has to be done by then. After that, we
start the beta and RC phases and release a few months later.

--=20

Arv=C4=ABds Godjuks
+371 26 851 664
arvids.godjuks@gmail.com
Telegram: @psihius https://t.me/psihius

--0000000000006b8d070623316f12
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat, 28 Sept 2024 at 13:03, Christ=
oph M. Becker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cmbecker69@gmx.de">cmbecker69@gmx.de</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On =
27.09.2024 at 18:22, Arvids Godjuks wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; I agree with the general sentiment that alpha/beta/rc should be follow=
ed in<br>
&gt; their canonical form:<br>
&gt; - Alpha - API/ABI gets broken, new stuff gets introduced, big<br>
&gt; implementations happen<br>
&gt; - Beta - new big additions are not allowed any more and introduced fea=
ture<br>
&gt; stabilisation and bugfixing occurs (this is where you polish<br>
&gt; implementations) and general feature freeze goes into effect<br>
&gt; - RC - final testing, bugfixing and eventually release.<br>
<br>
Thank you, I like that!=C2=A0 Maybe something like this should be added to<=
br>
our release cycle documentation.<br>
<br>
&gt; But I think the struggle we have with RFC&#39;s coming late and being =
a time<br>
&gt; crunch is the timing of the release - November. The big problem is tha=
t the<br>
&gt; vast majority of development and voting and RFC ironing out happens du=
ring<br>
&gt; summer when a lot of people are on vacations, travel and in general ar=
e not<br>
&gt; here. So come September/October - all hell breaks loose. And that happ=
ens<br>
&gt; every single year.<br>
<br>
Interesting theory!=C2=A0 However, I believe the actual problem is that mos=
t<br>
of the developers have a long backlog, so everything gets pushed closed<br>
to the respective deadline.=C2=A0 And that leads to the stress around this<=
br>
time we indeed have for years.<br>
<br>
Christoph<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><div><br></div>Well, you always have a backlog and there=
 is never enough time, and any pre-release time is packed with people tryin=
g to finish things.<div>It&#39;s just over the 20 years I have been reading=
 the list and especially since the release RFC has been adopted, starting m=
id-august to mid-September practically any sizeable RFC had at least a few =
people come in with &quot;I was away/vacation/travelling/etc&quot; - basica=
lly summer activities. This has been a constant and quite a few times some =
of the most experienced core devs returned like that and found major proble=
ms in RFCs that required everyone to scramble and try to solve it (and a fe=
w RFCs didn&#39;t make it into release due to that if my memory serves me r=
ight).</div><div><br></div><div>All I wanna say I have noticed this trend a=
nd I think personally that bumping the release by even 1-2 months would mak=
e things easier for everyone. We can make the Beta phase start in November,=
 so everyone who wants to get an RFC into release has to be done by then. A=
fter that, we start the beta and RC phases and release a few months later.<=
br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix">-- <=
/span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>=
<br></div>Arv=C4=ABds Godjuks<div>+371 26 851 664</div><div><a href=3D"mail=
to:arvids.godjuks@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">arvids.godjuks@gmail.com</a>=
</div><div>Telegram: @psihius=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://t.me/psihius" target=
=3D"_blank">https://t.me/psihius</a></div></div></div></div></div>

--0000000000006b8d070623316f12--