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Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2024 13:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
To: Jakub Zelenka <bukka@php.net>
Cc: Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>,
	Hammed Ajao <hamiegold@gmail.com>,
	Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes>,
	Adam Zielinski <adam.zielinski@automattic.com>,
	Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net>,
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zephir, and other tangents
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From: dennis.snell@automattic.com (Dennis Snell)


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> On Sep 20, 2024, at 1:21 PM, Jakub Zelenka <bukka@php.net> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 6:32=E2=80=AFPM Dennis Snell <dennis.snell@automa=
ttic.com
>> wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> My goal in sharing here is to help better represent my own perspective o=
f WordPress=E2=80=99 needs based on what I=E2=80=99ve seen. It=E2=80=99s lo=
ng been on my list to propose a WASM RFC, but because I personally haven=
=E2=80=99t had the priority available to get an implementation working I ha=
ven=E2=80=99t done so. It=E2=80=99s my impression from the documentation th=
at the purpose of these email threads w.r.t. RFCs is to gather interest and=
 input before any RFC would be put together, to hold these discussions befo=
re anyone commits any major time to it.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> Is your objective to support building PHP to wasm32-wasi target like it w=
as proposed here:=C2=A0https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/10457
> ? If so, the main issue with that was inability to do the zend_bailout as=
 wasm does not support currently support setjmp and longjmp. Otherwise it's=
 mostly about disabling some functionality.
>=20
>=20

It=E2=80=99s the other way around. We=E2=80=99ve been having a great time a=
lready building PHP as a WASM binary - we package it with SQLite and WordPr=
ess to create =E2=80=9CThe WordPress Playground.=E2=80=9D There=E2=80=99s a=
 wonderful new world of things that can happen when packaging PHP inside a =
WASM runtime.


However, this is about calling compiled WebAssembly code from user-space PH=
P.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 load_wasm( __DIR__ . =E2=80=98/interesting-computation.wasm=
=E2=80=99 );
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 $description =3D null;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 call_wasm_func( =E2=80=98lazy_json_decode=E2=80=99, $json, =
=E2=80=98items[0].description=E2=80=99, $description );


This is about things including, but not limited to the following scenarios:
=C2=A0- Properly parsing HTML, JSON, XML, URLs, image formats, and more, bu=
t don=E2=80=99t want the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0severe text-processing penalty from user-space PHP code.


=C2=A0- Ensuring that efficient tools are available to PHP code even when h=
osts don=E2=80=99t allow installing extensions,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0even when the site owners have no idea what an extension is or=
 how to install one.


=C2=A0- Updating libraries that convert or resize images when bug fixes are=
 made, without having to demand
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that hosts accept that responsibility and burden themselves.


=C2=A0- Share algorithms between JavaScript on the frontend and PHP on the =
backend, particularly those dealing
=C2=A0 =C2=A0with string processing (for example, slug generation, sanitiza=
tion, decoding).


=C2=A0- Explore novel software ideas and get them out to testing and iterat=
ion without having to ask the entire
=C2=A0 =C2=A0ecosystem to adopt them as extensions.


>=20
> Regards
>=20
> Jakub=C2=A0
>=20
>=20

Same! Cheers.
Dennis Snell


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<meta charset=3D"utf-8">
<style>body{font-family:-apple-system,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;}blockquot=
e{margin:0;padding:0 0 0 12px;border-left:1px solid #aaa;color:#aaa;}hr.uni=
box-forward{border:0;color:#888;background-color:#888;height:1px;}</style>
</head>
<body>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>On Sep 20, 2024, at 1:21 PM, Jakub Zelenka &lt;bukka@php.net&gt; wrote=
:</div>
<div><br></div>
<div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: -webkit-standard; fon=
t-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none;">Hi,</div>
<br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: -webkit-standard; font=
-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none;"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: -webkit-s=
tandard; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none=
;">
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 6:32=E2=80=AF=
PM Dennis Snell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dennis.snell@automattic.com">dennis.s=
nell@automattic.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; borde=
r-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 20=
4, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class=3D"msg-3767711036410981078">
<u></u><div>
<div><br></div>
<div>My goal in sharing here is to help better represent my own perspective=
 of WordPress=E2=80=99 needs based on what I=E2=80=99ve seen. It=E2=80=99s =
long been on my list to propose a WASM RFC, but because I personally haven=
=E2=80=99t had the priority available to get an implementation working I ha=
ven=E2=80=99t done so. It=E2=80=99s my impression from the documentation th=
at the purpose of these email threads w.r.t. RFCs is to gather interest and=
 input before any RFC would be put together, to hold these discussions befo=
re anyone commits any major time to it.</div>
</div>
</div></blockquote>
<div><br></div>Is your objective to support building PHP to wasm32-wasi tar=
get like it was proposed here:<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=C2=A0<=
/span><a href=3D"https://github.com/php/php-src/pull/10457">https://github.=
com/php/php-src/pull/10457</a>? If so, the main issue with that was inabili=
ty to do the zend_bailout as wasm does not support currently support setjmp=
 and longjmp. Otherwise it's mostly about disabling some functionality.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>It=E2=80=99s the other way around. We=E2=80=99ve been having a great t=
ime already building PHP as a WASM binary - we package it with SQLite and W=
ordPress to create =E2=80=9CThe WordPress Playground.=E2=80=9D There=
=E2=80=99s a wonderful new world of things that can happen when packaging P=
HP inside a WASM runtime.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>However, this is about calling compiled WebAssembly code from user-spa=
ce PHP.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 load_wasm( __DIR__ . =E2=80=98/interesting-computation.w=
asm=E2=80=99 );</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 $description =3D null;</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 call_wasm_func( =E2=80=98lazy_json_decode=E2=80=99, $jso=
n, =E2=80=98items[0].description=E2=80=99, $description );</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This is about things including, but not limited to the following scena=
rios:</div>
<div>=C2=A0- Properly parsing HTML, JSON, XML, URLs, image formats, and mor=
e, but don=E2=80=99t want the</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0severe text-processing penalty from user-space PHP code.<=
/div>
<div><br></div>
<div>=C2=A0- Ensuring that efficient tools are available to PHP code even w=
hen hosts don=E2=80=99t allow installing extensions,</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0even when the site owners have no idea what an extension =
is or how to install one.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>=C2=A0- Updating libraries that convert or resize images when bug fixe=
s are made, without having to demand</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0that hosts accept that responsibility and burden themselv=
es.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>=C2=A0- Share algorithms between JavaScript on the frontend and PHP on=
 the backend, particularly those dealing</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0with string processing (for example, slug generation, san=
itization, decoding).</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>=C2=A0- Explore novel software ideas and get them out to testing and i=
teration without having to ask the entire</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0ecosystem to adopt them as extensions.</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:=
 -webkit-standard; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decora=
tion: none;">
<br>Regards<br><br><div>Jakub=C2=A0</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Same! Cheers.</div>
<div>Dennis Snell</div>
</body>
</html>
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