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Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:08:56 +0100
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Zephir, and other tangents
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From: imsop.php@rwec.co.uk ("Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]")

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On Tue, 17 Sep 2024, at 22:03, Rob Landers wrote:
> It seems like you have a use for it though, and I=E2=80=99m reasonably=
 certain you could get it working over ffi in a few weeks; yet you menti=
on hosts not even having the curl extension installed, so I doubt that e=
ven if wasm came to be, it would be available on those hosts.

I just want to highlight this point, and clear up some possible misconce=
ptions.

PHP is a modular application, built out of a core engine and any number =
of "extensions".

About 60 extensions are in the php-src repository's ext/ folder. This mo=
stly just means that they are released on the same schedule as PHP, and =
some simple maintenance tasks are carried out in bulk across them. It al=
so makes it slightly more likely that package managers will include pack=
ages for them, but this is not a hard rule - e.g. Ubuntu ships packages =
for many common PECL and externally-hosted extensions like DS and MongoD=
B.

A very small number of extensions are "always available" - you can't bui=
ld PHP without them. These need to be usable on every platform PHP can b=
e built for, and any external dependencies are generally copied into the=
 php-src repository, rather than increasing the base requirements to bui=
ld or run a minimal PHP.

I'm pretty confident that an integration of WASM would be a new extensio=
n, and it would be optional. So a cheap host that does not enable someth=
ing as well-known and long-established as ext/curl is extremely unlikely=
 to enable an "ext/wasm".=20

A slightly more knowledgeable host *might* be willing to enable an "ext/=
wasm", but not allow a user to upload their own extensions or enable ext=
/ffi - but only once it had been proven stable and secure..

It appears there are already a couple of projects building WASM extensio=
ns. I would urge those of you interested to collaborate on one of those =
projects. The only reason to raise an RFC would be a) if the extension n=
eeded some non-trivial change to the core engine to hook into; or b) if =
the extension was mature, and it seemed beneficial to move it into the p=
hp-src repository rather than releasing it separately.

Regards,
--=20
Rowan Tommins
[IMSoP]
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">=0Ap.=
MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div>On Tue, 17 S=
ep 2024, at 22:03, Rob Landers wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
 id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div>It seems like you have a use for it though, a=
nd I=E2=80=99m reasonably certain you could get it working over ffi in a=
 few weeks; yet you mention hosts not even having the curl extension ins=
talled, so I doubt that even if wasm came to be, it would be available o=
n those hosts.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I just want to =
highlight this point, and clear up some possible misconceptions.<br></di=
v><div><br></div><div>PHP is a modular application, built out of a core =
engine and any number of "extensions".<br></div><div><br></div><div>Abou=
t 60 extensions are in the php-src repository's ext/ folder. This mostly=
 just means that they are released on the same schedule as PHP, and some=
 simple maintenance tasks are carried out in bulk across them. It also m=
akes it slightly more likely that package managers will include packages=
 for them, but this is not a hard rule - e.g. Ubuntu ships packages for =
many common PECL and externally-hosted extensions like DS and MongoDB.<b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>A very small number of extensions are "alway=
s available" - you can't build PHP without them. These need to be usable=
 on every platform PHP can be built for, and any external dependencies a=
re generally copied into the php-src repository, rather than increasing =
the base requirements to build or run a minimal PHP.<br></div><div><br><=
/div><div>I'm pretty confident that an integration of WASM would be a ne=
w extension, and it would be optional. So a cheap host that does not ena=
ble something as well-known and long-established as ext/curl is extremel=
y unlikely to enable an "ext/wasm". <br></div><div><br></div><div>A slig=
htly more knowledgeable host *might* be willing to enable an "ext/wasm",=
 but not allow a user to upload their own extensions or enable ext/ffi -=
 but only once it had been proven stable and secure..<br></div><div><br>=
</div><div>It appears there are already a couple of projects building WA=
SM extensions. I would urge those of you interested to collaborate on on=
e of those projects. The only reason to raise an RFC would be a) if the =
extension needed some non-trivial change to the core engine to hook into=
; or b) if the extension was mature, and it seemed beneficial to move it=
 into the php-src repository rather than releasing it separately.<br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Regards,<br></div><div>-- <br></div><div>Rowan To=
mmins<br></div><div>[IMSoP]<br></div></body></html>
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