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Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2024 13:42:38 +0200
Message-ID: <CAJmjfvWGQUhjjzedg3qBMckzwr2RcS6=2ZdHXt56BUm50q+ebQ@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] function autoloading v4 RFC
To: Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes>
Cc: internals@lists.php.net
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From: jakob@givoni.dk (Jakob Givoni)

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On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 10:58=E2=80=AFPM Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes> wro=
te:

> On Thu, Sep 5, 2024, at 21:03, Jakob Givoni wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 9:18=E2=80=AFPM Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes> wr=
ote:
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2024, at 17:16, Jakob Givoni wrote:
>
>
>
> 2. I've removed artificial restrictions on the constants in which all
> functions that take them can accept both at the same time and behave
> appropriately.
>
>
> I'm not a big fan passing flags and using binary operations to combine
> options into a single parameter.
> It works, but it's opaque and old-school.
> We have both named parameters and enums now, can't we just use those goin=
g
> forward, making each option a separate parameter or using enums with 3
> cases, FUNCTION, CLASS or BOTH?
>
>
> Thank you for your opinion, but for cases like this, enums is probably on=
e
> of the worst choices IMHO. As mentioned towards the end of the RFC, I'd
> like to add further support for other things, such as constants and strea=
m
> filters. Further, it appears that enums cannot be used in SPL (at least, =
I
> couldn't get it to link) due to SPL having a recursive dependency on
> itself. This is what Gina's RFC seeks to rectify by breaking autoloading
> out of SPL. This RFC focuses purely on function autoloading.
>
>
> I see that under "Future scope" you put:
>
> Potentially, constants and stream wrappers can be added in a similar
> fashion.
>
> Trying to figure out if you are referring to the possibility
> of autoloading stream wrappers and constants? Is that something there's a
> need/desire for?
>
>
> Hey Jakob,
>
> I'm replying this in a separate thread because it is more or less 'meta'
> than my other reply. There have been discussions about this off-and-on fo=
r
> awhile, but the gist is that there are people that would find it useful.
> For example, in my experimental "time" library there is a SECOND and MINU=
TE
> constant that must be required if you have the library, even if your code
> execution path never uses them. So, I think there might be some usefulnes=
s
> to constant autoloading. Further, there are some great async libraries th=
at
> use stream wrappers to hijack/use file_get_contents and friends in an asy=
nc
> way, so having autoloading there may also be useful.
>

Ok, I had not thought about it, but it makes sense. Thanks for the
explanation!


>
> That being said, I wanted to constrain the scope initially as this
> appeared to be a hot topic (autoloading functions) every time it came up.
> Thus I was preparing myself for a long and drawn-out discussion and kept
> the scope minimal.
>
> I hope that helps explain why it is under future scope.
>
> =E2=80=94 Rob
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 5, 2024 at 10:58=E2=80=AF=
PM Rob Landers &lt;rob@bottled.codes&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg4029695984220419816"><u><=
/u><div><div>On Thu, Sep 5, 2024, at 21:03, Jakob Givoni wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"m_4029695984220419816qt"><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><div><br></div><div><div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Sep 4,=
 2024 at 9:18=E2=80=AFPM Rob Landers &lt;rob@bottled.codes&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb=
(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><u></u><br></div><div><div>On Wed=
, Sep 4, 2024, at 17:16, Jakob Givoni wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"c=
ite" id=3D"m_4029695984220419816qt-m_-6769992881184812630qt"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">2. I&#39;ve remove=
d artificial restrictions on the constants in which all functions that take=
 them can accept both at the same time and behave appropriately.<br></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m not a big fan passing flags and using bin=
ary operations to=C2=A0combine options into a single parameter.=C2=A0<br></=
div><div>It works, but it&#39;s opaque and old-school.<br></div><div>We hav=
e both named parameters and enums now, can&#39;t we just use those going fo=
rward, making each option a separate parameter or using enums with 3 cases,=
=C2=A0FUNCTION, CLASS or BOTH?=C2=A0<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div><div>Thank you for your opinion, but for cases like this, enums =
is probably one of the worst choices IMHO. As mentioned towards the end of =
the RFC, I&#39;d like to add further support for other things, such as cons=
tants and stream filters. Further, it appears that enums cannot be used in =
SPL (at least, I couldn&#39;t get it to link) due to SPL having a recursive=
 dependency on itself. This is what Gina&#39;s RFC seeks to rectify by brea=
king autoloading out of SPL. This RFC focuses purely on function autoloadin=
g.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I see that under &=
quot;Future scope&quot; you put:<br></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Poten=
tially, constants and stream wrappers can be added in a similar fashion.<br=
></blockquote><div>Trying to figure out if you are referring to the possibi=
lity of=C2=A0autoloading stream wrappers and constants? Is that something t=
here&#39;s a need/desire for?<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></=
div><div>Hey Jakob,<br></div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m replying this in a=
 separate thread because it is more or less &#39;meta&#39; than my other re=
ply. There have been discussions about this off-and-on for awhile, but the =
gist is that there are people that would find it useful. For example, in my=
 experimental &quot;time&quot; library there is a SECOND and MINUTE constan=
t that must be required if you have the library, even if your code executio=
n path never uses them. So, I think there might be some usefulness to const=
ant autoloading. Further, there are some great async libraries that use str=
eam wrappers to hijack/use file_get_contents and friends in an async way, s=
o having autoloading there may also be useful.<br></div></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>Ok, I had not thought about it, but it makes sens=
e. Thanks for the explanation!</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg4029695984220419816"><div><div=
></div><div><br></div><div>That being said, I wanted to constrain the scope=
 initially as this appeared to be a hot topic (autoloading functions) every=
 time it came up. Thus I was preparing myself for a long and drawn-out disc=
ussion and kept the scope minimal.<br></div><div><br></div><div>I hope that=
 helps explain why it is under future scope.</div><div><br></div><div id=3D=
"m_4029695984220419816sig121229152">=E2=80=94 Rob<br></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote></div></div>

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