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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 20:06:25 +0200
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [Discussion] Using and Mentioning Third-party
 Packages in PHP Documentation and Web Projects
To: Jim Winstead <jimw@trainedmonkey.com>, internals@lists.php.net
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From: bobwei9@hotmail.com (Bob Weinand)

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Hey Jim,

On 26.8.2024 19:44:18, Jim Winstead wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Another RFC around process: 
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/web-and-doc-use-not-endorsement
>
> Feedback would be appreciated. My intention is to start voting on 
> September 9th unless there is still ongoing discussion.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim


Thanks for bringing this up - I also suggest that we make this a binary 
choice - either we adopt the proposed language or its opposite.

I.e. a rejection of this should codify that statement in the negative.


I do in particular reject the notion that we should document third-party 
projects (usage for our infra is fine).

The point of the PHP documentation is to describe the PHP runtime and 
PECL extensions, which are both officially distributed through php.net.

Anything not related to these does not belong into the manual, much less 
into core documentation (like language/oop5 autoload.xml, to take the 
example from https://github.com/php/doc-en/pull/3677/files).


Changing this current unwritten rule is an invitation to implicitly 
promote specific projects. The question is really where does it end? 
Would we for example also mention PSRs as "widely followed guidelines 
for interoperability" or something? It's a strong invitation for some 
scope creep.

As such I strongly condemn the idea of inclusion of this guideline.


There are, ultimately, enough ways for people to learn about the PHP 
ecosystem, the php.net documentation is none of them. If I go to 
php.net, it's because I want to learn about the runtime, not its ecosystem.


Bob

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    <p>Hey Jim,<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 26.8.2024 19:44:18, Jim Winstead
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:642cb3ea-bf51-4832-8539-0540742000e1@app.fastmail.com">
      
      <title></title>
      <style type="text/css">p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">Hi,<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">Another RFC around process:&nbsp;<a href="https://wiki.php.net/rfc/web-and-doc-use-not-endorsement" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://wiki.php.net/rfc/web-and-doc-use-not-endorsement</a><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">Feedback would be appreciated. My
        intention is to start voting on September 9th unless there is
        still ongoing discussion.<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">Thanks.<br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;"><br>
      </div>
      <div style="font-family:Arial;">Jim</div>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Thanks for bringing this up - I also suggest that we make this a
      binary choice - either we adopt the proposed language or its
      opposite.</p>
    <p>I.e. a rejection of this should codify that statement in the
      negative.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>I do in particular reject the notion that we should document
      third-party projects (usage for our infra is fine).</p>
    <p>The point of the PHP documentation is to describe the PHP runtime
      and PECL extensions, which are both officially distributed through
      php.net.</p>
    <p>Anything not related to these does not belong into the manual,
      much less into core documentation (like language/oop5
      autoload.xml, to take the example from
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/php/doc-en/pull/3677/files">https://github.com/php/doc-en/pull/3677/files</a>).</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Changing this current unwritten rule is an invitation to
      implicitly promote specific projects. The question is really where
      does it end? Would we for example also mention PSRs as &quot;widely
      followed guidelines for interoperability&quot; or something? It's a
      strong invitation for some scope creep.</p>
    <p>As such I strongly condemn the idea of inclusion of this
      guideline.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>There are, ultimately, enough ways for people to learn about the
      PHP ecosystem, the php.net documentation is none of them. If I go
      to php.net, it's because I want to learn about the runtime, not
      its ecosystem.<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Bob<br>
    </p>
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