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Sun, 25 Aug 2024 19:06:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2024 00:06:24 +0100 To: internals@lists.php.net Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Default expression User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <792a811e-edf8-4a82-8422-e11cc302a6db@scriptfusion.com> References: <0c8ed5d6-5507-4c41-8d7f-05d14ba8aa4c@scriptfusion.com> <0cfd3a28-3cb0-4478-85fb-cf086d8e5c66@app.fastmail.com> <3e0d031e-256f-47cd-9a2b-dcdc760f5498@scriptfusion.com> <6afeb23a-867f-457d-9b13-fdf5af02c31e@scriptfusion.com> <928d6c8c-c969-4d55-82ff-5da8fc3d3035@scriptfusion.com> <792a811e-edf8-4a82-8422-e11cc302a6db@scriptfusion.com> Message-ID: <7D8C01A7-BB53-40D7-ABFE-646E67A9447B@rwec.co.uk> Precedence: bulk list-help: list-post: List-Id: internals.lists.php.net x-ms-reactions: disallow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: imsop.php@rwec.co.uk ("Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]") On 25 August 2024 23:42:20 BST, Bilge wrote: >On 25/08/2024 23:31, Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] wrote: >> It doesn't, unfortunately, persuade me that the behaviour proposed is s= ensible=2E > >It should=2E But since it has apparently failed in that regard, I suggest= you take me up on my challenge to implement the grammar you want with a pa= tch and you will quickly convince yourself one way or the other=2E I think I have been perfectly consistent in saying that I am discussing th= e proposed language behaviour, not anything about how it could or should be= implemented=2E If it's a case of "unfortunately, doing the right thing is impossible, so = we're proposing this compromise", then that's a reasonable position, but no= t how this has been presented=2E I also think it is perfectly reasonable to= conclude that the compromise gives away too much=2E=20 In particular, I think allowing assignments and method calls to "read out"= a value which was previously a private implementation detail accessible on= ly through the Reflection API, is a significant language change with a net = negative impact=2E If that's the required tradeoff to allow "(some expressi= on) ?: default", then my position is we should do without it=2E=20 Regards, Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]