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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 20:38:48 +0200
To: "Bruce Weirdan" <weirdan@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] State of Generics and Collections
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From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

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On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 20:27, Bruce Weirdan wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 4:27=E2=80=AFPM Larry Garfield <larry@garfield=
tech.com> wrote:
>> Moving those definitions to attributes is certainly possible, though =
AFAIK both the PHPStan and Psalm devs have expressed zero interest in it.
>> Part of the challenge is that such an approach will either still invo=
lve string parsing,
>=20
> That's not really a challenge and would help somewhat with the current=
 status quo where we have to guess where the type ends and the textual p=
art of the comment begins. But it gets ugly for any type that has to inc=
lude quotes (literal strings, array keys, etc). Technically one can use =
nowdocs, but it's not much better:  https://3v4l.org/4hpte
> =20
>> or will involve a lot of deeply nested attribute classes.=20
>=20
> Yeah, that would look like Lisp's S-exprs, but much worse - which, in =
my opinion, would harm adoption.
>=20
> All in all, in my opinion attribute-based solutions are less ergonomic=
 than what we already have now in docblocks.
>=20
> --
>   Best regards,
>       Bruce Weirdan                                     mailto:weirdan=
@gmail.com

Thank you Larry for expressing some of the problems. Is there any reason=
 nesting has to be supported out of the gate? Think about type hints. It=
 started with some basic functionality and then grew over time. There is=
 no reason we have to have a new kitchen sink, oven, dishwasher and stov=
e when all we want is a new refrigerator.=20

=E2=80=94 Rob
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso=
Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div><div>On Fri, Aug 23, 2024, at 20:27, Bruce Weirdan wrote:<br><=
/div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 4:27=E2=80=AFPM Larry Garfield &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:larry@garfieldtech.com">larry@garfieldtech.com</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"qt-gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"qt-=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;=
margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-l=
eft-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;">Moving those definitions=
 to attributes is certainly possible, though AFAIK both the PHPStan and =
Psalm devs have expressed zero interest in it.<br></blockquote><blockquo=
te class=3D"qt-gmail_quote" style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;mar=
gin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style=
:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;">Part of t=
he challenge is that such an approach will either still involve string p=
arsing,<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>That's not really a challeng=
e and would help somewhat with the current status quo where we have to g=
uess where the type ends and the textual part of the comment begins. But=
 it gets ugly for any type that has to include quotes (literal strings, =
array keys, etc). Technically one can use nowdocs, but it's not much bet=
ter:&nbsp; <a href=3D"https://3v4l.org/4hpte">https://3v4l.org/4hpte</a>=
<br></div><div>&nbsp;<br></div><blockquote class=3D"qt-gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex=
;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204=
, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex;">or will involve a lot of deeply nested at=
tribute classes.&nbsp;<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yeah, that wo=
uld look like Lisp's S-exprs, but much worse - which, in my opinion, wou=
ld harm adoption.<br></div><div><br></div><div>All in all, in my opinion=
 attribute-based solutions are less ergonomic than what we already have =
now in docblocks.<br></div></div><div><br></div><div><span class=3D"qt-g=
mail_signature_prefix">--</span><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"qt-g=
mail_signature"><div>&nbsp; Best regards,<br></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; Bruce Weirdan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&=
nbsp; mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:weirdan@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">weir=
dan@gmail.com</a><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
Thank you Larry for expressing some of the problems. Is there any reason=
 nesting has to be supported out of the gate? Think about type hints. It=
 started with some basic functionality and then grew over time. There is=
 no reason we have to have a new kitchen sink, oven, dishwasher and stov=
e when all we want is a new refrigerator.&nbsp;<br></div><div><br></div>=
<div id=3D"sig121229152">=E2=80=94 Rob<br></div></body></html>
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