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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Concept] Flip relative function lookup order (global,
 then local)
In-Reply-To: <63DAE337-B117-4380-8735-186DC30FE0B7@rwec.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 23:27:35 +0700
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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Message-ID: <68BD8107-9BBE-476B-B085-B340CB709A49@koalephant.com>
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To: "Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]" <imsop.php@rwec.co.uk>
From: php-lists@koalephant.com (Stephen Reay)



> On 23 Aug 2024, at 22:49, Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] <imsop.php@rwec.co.uk> =
wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 23 August 2024 15:04:32 BST, Stephen Reay =
<php-lists@koalephant.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> I stand by the rest of my argument though. This entire ridiculous =
discussion about a huge BC break that introduces bizarre =
inconsistencies, is 100% because a handful of people don't want to type =
`\`.
>=20
> Again, I'm not sure which straw man you're attacking.

I'm not attacking any straw man. I'm calling out the absolutely =
absurdity of breaking code that has worked for 15 years based on the =
claim that some people don't want to type a leading backslash. That =
isn't *my* claim, that's the claim of the original email.


> The largest BC break would be to require users to type the leading =
backslash,

So don't then. If people want to rely on the exist fallback as it has =
existed for 15 years, and don't care about the performance penalty, let =
them.


> in exchange for removing the current "bizarre inconsistencies" and =
making functions resolve the same way as classes.

The current inconsistencies between symbol types can be avoided in =
userland in a 100% consistent way. Import or qualify the symbols you =
use, all the time, and you have 0 inconsistencies or bizarreness in =
terms of what it used when.=20

Regardless of the specific flavour, swapping the lookup order for *some* =
symbols to look for global symbols when making unqualified references =
introduces a hard inconsistency that cannot be rectified in userland, =
and some flavours (i.e. the original proposal) introduce ongoing-forever =
BC breakage issues.

> Other proposals aim to shift that balance - leaving some =
inconsistency, but less compatibility break.

Great, how about the solution that doesn't have any BC, and works in =
every version back to 5.3?


>=20
> And most users don't object to using a leading backslash

Once again, I didn't claim most users object. I was specifically =
pointing out that a small number of people complaining about this is a =
ridiculous reason to even consider the change. Hell the original issue =
that Ilija referenced makes this outrageous claim, so perhaps direct =
your "most users" response at the person claiming to represent the views =
of *all* users on the planet:

> All PHP projects in the World are a bit slower than they could be...




> , they just (quite reasonably) have no idea what impact it has on the =
ability of the engine to optimise their code.

Great, so then we can resolve this whole thing by adding a footnote to =
the "Name resolution rules" page in the manual that (a) recommends using =
qualified names (i.e. prefix with a `\`) and (b) provides deeper details =
of the reasons for those who care.





>=20
> Regards,
> Rowan Tommins
> [IMSoP]
>=20