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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 09:04:20 -0300
Message-ID: <CADK1yX+ry3aXcvshrSw5n5xosZW8yA2KbW6YPVYHaUuZ6oLTng@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] State of Generics and Collections
To: Roman Pronskiy <roman.pronskiy@thephp.foundation>
Cc: PHP Developers Mailing List <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: deleugyn@gmail.com (Deleu)

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On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 8:51=E2=80=AFAM Roman Pronskiy
<roman.pronskiy@thephp.foundation> wrote:

>
> Do you consider the path of not adding generics to the core at all? In
> fact, this path is implicitly taken during the last years. So maybe it
> makes sense to enforce that status quo?
>
> Potential steps:
> - Make the current status quo official by recognizing generics PHPDoc
> syntax as The Generics for PHP. Just adding a php.net manual page will
> do.
> - Recognize Composer as the official PHP tool. It's currently not
> mentioned on php.net at all.
> - Suggest using PHPStan or Psalm for generics and type checks.
> - Add an official specification for generics in the PHP manual to
> eliminate semantic variances between tools.
>
> This will keep the core simple and reduce the maintenance burden, not
> increase it.
>
> Moreover, it does not contradict with any other implementation
> mentioned in the article, should they happen. In fact, it could be a
> first baby-step for any of them.
>
> There is also an attempt to do generics via attributes =E2=80=93
> https://github.com/php-static-analysis/attributes =E2=80=93 it could
> potentially be a better alternative of recognising =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=
=80=9D syntax,
> because unlike PHPDocs, attributes can be available in core and the
> syntax is checked.
>
> What do you folks think?
>
> -Roman
>

Seems like a great plan, to be honest. I find it rather odd that Generics
is the most requested PHP feature because it seems like we have survived
without it for so long and I don't subscribe to the concept that this would
be the best thing for PHP since electricity.

Having an official "syntax" (Attributes, Docblock) could increase adoption.
On the other hand, I feel like a likely outcome is that folks will still
consider it as "something that doesn't exist yet" and will keep requesting
it.

Something else that is worth mentioning, I like that Collection is being
discussed as a small step as well. It's a very common use of Generics and
would be a great addition to the language if something solid comes out of
it.

--=20
Marco Deleu

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 8:51=E2=80=AFAM R=
oman Pronskiy &lt;roman.pronskiy@thephp.foundation&gt; wrote:<br></div><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><b=
r>
Do you consider the path of not adding generics to the core at all? In<br>
fact, this path is implicitly taken during the last years. So maybe it<br>
makes sense to enforce that status quo?<br>
<br>
Potential steps:<br>
- Make the current status quo official by recognizing generics PHPDoc<br>
syntax as The Generics for PHP. Just adding a <a href=3D"http://php.net" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">php.net</a> manual page will<br>
do.<br>
- Recognize Composer as the official PHP tool. It&#39;s currently not<br>
mentioned on <a href=3D"http://php.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">php.net</a> at all.<br>
- Suggest using PHPStan or Psalm for generics and type checks.<br>
- Add an official specification for generics in the PHP manual to<br>
eliminate semantic variances between tools.<br>
<br>
This will keep the core simple and reduce the maintenance burden, not<br>
increase it.<br>
<br>
Moreover, it does not contradict with any other implementation<br>
mentioned in the article, should they happen. In fact, it could be a<br>
first baby-step for any of them.<br>
<br>
There is also an attempt to do generics via attributes =E2=80=93<br>
<a href=3D"https://github.com/php-static-analysis/attributes" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/php-static-analysis/attributes</=
a> =E2=80=93 it could<br>
potentially be a better alternative of recognising =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=80=
=9D syntax,<br>
because unlike PHPDocs, attributes can be available in core and the<br>
syntax is checked.<br>
<br>
What do you folks think?<br>
<br>
-Roman<br>
</blockquote></div><div><br></div><div>Seems like a great plan, to be hones=
t. I find it rather odd that Generics is the most requested PHP feature bec=
ause it seems like we have survived without it for so long and I don&#39;t =
subscribe to the concept that this would be the best thing for PHP since el=
ectricity.</div><div><br></div><div>Having an official &quot;syntax&quot; (=
Attributes, Docblock) could increase adoption. On the other hand, I feel li=
ke a likely outcome is that folks will still consider it as &quot;something=
 that doesn&#39;t exist yet&quot; and will keep requesting it.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Something else that is worth mentioning, I like that Collectio=
n is being discussed as a small step as well. It&#39;s a very common use of=
 Generics and would be a great addition to the language if something solid =
comes out of it.</div><div><br></div><span class=3D"gmail_signature_prefix"=
>-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div di=
r=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Marco Deleu</div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div></div></div>

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