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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Concept] Flip relative function lookup order (global,
 then local)
In-Reply-To: <846D7756-712B-4A7C-9FC6-DB9F858836B8@rwec.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2024 07:29:04 -0400
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Message-ID: <DACF099F-3CC9-4B92-9C4C-736B92E8D69C@newclarity.net>
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To: "Rowan Tommins [IMSoP]" <imsop.php@rwec.co.uk>
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)

Hi Rowan,

> On Aug 23, 2024, at 2:39 AM, Rowan Tommins [IMSoP] =
<imsop.php@rwec.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23 August 2024 00:15:19 BST, Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net> =
wrote:
>> Having to prefix with a name like Foo, e.g. Foo\strlen() is FAR =
PREFERABLE to _\strlen() because at least it provides satiating =
information rather than the empty calories of a cryptic shorthand.  =
#jmtcw, anyway.
>=20
> I knew I'd regret keeping the example short. Realistically, it's not a =
substitute for "\Foo\strlen", it's a substitute for =
"\AcmeComponents\SplineReticulator\Utilities\Text\strlen".

And similarly, I too regret keeping my answer short. I was assuming what =
I omitted would be obvious.=20

(And I am not being snarky, I literally thought about including this =
next but then felt I did not need to. Hindsight!)

So, long namespaces is why PHP has the `use` statement, making =
references in functions short and sweet, e.g:

namespace \AcmeComponents\SplineReticulator\Utilities\Text
use \AcmeComponents\SplineReticulator\Utilities\Text

function Foo():int {
	return Text\strlen("Hello World");
}

(Of course, that is a lot of redundant boilerplate.)

> Another option would be to find a shorter keyword than "namespace" to =
put it in front. "ns\strlen(...)" is an obvious step from what we have =
currently, but it's not very obvious what it means, so maybe there's a =
different word we could use.

So rather than all that boilerplate, and rather than yet another special =
set of characters developers would need to learn and remember =E2=80=94 =
and tooling would need to adjust to =E2=80=94 we could instead easily =
add an automatic `use` statement for every namespace, as long as no =
existing use statement conflicts with it.=20

An automatic `use` would then give us the following, which provides a =
strong information sent and is really consistent with the nature of the =
PHP language:

namespace \AcmeComponents\SplineReticulator\Utilities\Text

function Foo():int {
	return Text\strlen("Hello World");
}

The above of course could result in BC breaks IF there happened to be =
existing code that referenced Text\strlen() where Text was a top-level =
namespace, AND that code was not remediated when this change takes =
place. However, I am guessing those collisions would be pretty rare as =
both the namespace and the symbol would have to match to be in conflict.

> Having a syntax for "relative to current" is incredibly common in =
other path-like syntaxes. The most common marker is ".", and ".\foo" is =
literally how you'd refer to something in the current directory under =
DOS/Windows. But unfortunately, we don't have "." available, so I =
wondered if "_" would feel similar enough.

I'll be honest, the association with the relative path of `.\` did not =
occur to me when you presented `_\` so after you stating this I pondered =
if from that perspective.=20

However, frankly, I am not sold on that perspective. Something about it =
does not feel right. I can't currently give any more objective arguments =
than that, so I will just leave it as #jmctw.

I will say if we were going with relative path, I think `\\strlen()` =
would be preferable to `_\strlen()`. Subjectively `\\` is easier for me =
to "see" and thus does not look so out of place to me.=20

OTOH the objective arguments for `\\` over `_\` are it is much easier to =
type:  slash+slash vs. shift-underscore+nonshift-slash. There is a =
precedent in URIs with `//`, albeit not exactly equivalent. And finally, =
it also does not use a sigil that could be better used elsewhere in some =
as-yet-to be agreed or envisioned future use. #fwiw

-Mike=