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Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 11:01:10 +0300
Message-ID: <CAAwdEzDqcCa-rQMFmD+6mQ4wWHJW+8Bi4_5LQ3GbfcK4PCYp3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Concept] Flip relative function lookup order (global,
 then local)
To: Ilija Tovilo <tovilo.ilija@gmail.com>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: drealecs@gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Alexandru_P=C4=83tr=C4=83nescu?=)

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On Sun, Aug 4, 2024 at 8:43=E2=80=AFPM Ilija Tovilo <tovilo.ilija@gmail.com=
> wrote:

> Hi Rob
>
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 7:10=E2=80=AFPM Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes> wr=
ote:
> >
> > So, what you=E2=80=99re saying is that symfony and laravel can get a pe=
rformance
> increase by simply adding a \ in the right places? Why don=E2=80=99t they=
 do that
> instead of changing the language?
>
> Nothing, of course. However, a Symfony maintainer has expressed
> uninterest in prefixing all internal function calls, including
> automated use statements at the top of the file. Even if they did,
> most users will not.
>
>
Function lookup in either global or local scope is problematic, and
probably that's why we don't have autoloading for functions yet.
How about we change the language so that in PHP 9.0 there will be a notice
that gets triggered when a fallback to the global namespace gets triggered.
We would upgrade that to a warning in PHP 9.2, and it would end up being an
error on PHP 10 and have a BC break.

I don't think adding a \ to each function call is ugly, that's what we have
for classes, and it works fine; or an use statement.
So, why do we think that after people get used to it, they would still
consider it ugly? Never heard the "ugliness" mentioned for classes.

Now, I know this would be a big BC break, but it brings consistency to the
language and forces everyone to improve their code performance.

If that's not acceptable, then maybe considering all unqualified functions
as belonging to global namespace only might be an alternative solution.
That means that non-global functions must be imported or be fully
qualified, and that would be a BC break as well, but a smaller one.

To sum up, I think we need to remove the fallback behavior, so we can have
better things in the future.
Either keep only local with a bigger BC break but a better language
consistency.
Or keep only global with a smaller BC break.

 Regards,
Alex

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr"=
 class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 4, 2024 at 8:43=E2=80=AFPM Ilija Tovilo &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tovilo.ilija@gmail.com">tovilo.ilija@gmail.com</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Rob<b=
r>
<br>
On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 7:10=E2=80=AFPM Rob Landers &lt;rob@bottled.codes&gt=
; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So, what you=E2=80=99re saying is that symfony and laravel can get a p=
erformance increase by simply adding a \ in the right places? Why don=E2=80=
=99t they do that instead of changing the language?<br>
<br>
Nothing, of course. However, a Symfony maintainer has expressed<br>
uninterest in prefixing all internal function calls, including<br>
automated use statements at the top of the file. Even if they did,<br>
most users will not.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Function lookup in either global or lo=
cal scope is problematic, and probably that&#39;s why we don&#39;t have aut=
oloading for functions yet.<br></div><div>How about we change the language =
so that in PHP 9.0 there will be a notice that gets triggered when a fallba=
ck to the global namespace gets triggered.</div><div>We would upgrade that =
to a warning in PHP 9.2, and it would end up being an error on PHP 10 and h=
ave a BC break.</div><div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t think adding a \ to ea=
ch function call is ugly, that&#39;s what we have for classes, and it works=
 fine; or an use statement.</div><div>So, why do we think that after people=
 get used to it,=C2=A0they would still consider it ugly? Never heard the &q=
uot;ugliness&quot; mentioned=C2=A0for classes.</div><div><br></div><div>Now=
, I know this would be a big BC break, but it brings consistency to the lan=
guage and forces everyone to improve their code performance.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>If that&#39;s not acceptable, then maybe considering all unquali=
fied functions as belonging to global namespace only might be an alternativ=
e solution.</div><div>That means that non-global functions must be imported=
 or be fully qualified, and that would be a BC break as well, but a smaller=
 one.</div><div><br></div><div>To sum up, I think we need to remove the fal=
lback behavior, so we can have better things in the future.</div><div>Eithe=
r keep only local with a=C2=A0bigger BC break but a better language consist=
ency.</div><div>Or keep only global with a smaller BC break.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>=C2=A0Regards,</div><div>Alex</div></div></div>

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