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Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2024 11:07:16 -0600
Message-ID: <CAM7F2-_L60d3y6Gen7w7K_0Js9ho6EbuS0gw3Fu-qZ+ZVXwiNg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [DISCUSSION] C++ Enhancements in Zend API
To: Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>
Cc: John Coggeshall <john@coggeshall.org>, Levi Morrison <levi.morrison@datadoghq.com>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: lnearwaju@gmail.com (Lanre)

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On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 10:50=E2=80=AFAM Pierre Joye <pierre.php@gmail.com>=
 wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024, 11:03=E2=80=AFPM John Coggeshall <john@coggeshall.o=
rg>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> > I=E2=80=99m considering adding some C++ enhancements to the Zend API.
>>
>>
>> I would definitely like to see an RFC for this if it was to be
>> considered. To me, adding a whole new way of doing things internally
>> without completely removing the old way is just asking for a more brittl=
e,
>> potentially less secure, and harder to maintain codebase. The win of mak=
ing
>> it easier / "nicer" on a subset of developers who might prefer a C++
>> interface isn't anywhere near worth the risk IMO.
>>
>
>
> if anything, I would rather go with rust (zig would have my preference
> ;-). The benefits would be to have a significant ease to contribute for
> many.
>
> Neither of c++ or rust would be easy to add. The later would have the hug=
e
> advantage to bring a little bit more safety to the extensions APIs.
>
> A less diplomatic answer would be that c++ makes zero sense in 2024 for
> php (or any other language), a strong and bold take :)
>
> best,
> Pierre
>

Lol it's been a long morning, thanks for the laugh. Look through php's
source code, do you see any mention of rust or zig? or any references to
their compilers? PHP already supports C++20 (
https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/build/php_cxx_compile_stdcxx.m4)
and has at least one extension implemented in c++.

Do you genuinely believe that it makes more sense to add support for a new
language (rust/zig) that will require its own compiler (that isn't
installed anywhere by default), than to improve support for a language
already part of php?

Humor me and elaborate on why you think that 'c++ makes zero sense in 2024
for php (or any other language),'

Cheers,
Lanre.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 10:50=E2=80=
=AFAM Pierre Joye &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pierre.php@gmail.com">pierre.php@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
t:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 12, 2024, 11:03=E2=80=AFPM John C=
oggeshall &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:john@coggeshall.org" target=3D"_blank">john=
@coggeshall.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><br><blockquote><div><div>&gt; I=E2=80=99m considering addin=
g some C++ enhancements to the Zend API.</div></div></blockquote><br><div>I=
 would definitely like to see an RFC for this if it was to be considered. T=
o me, adding a whole new way of doing things internally without completely =
removing the old way is just asking for a more brittle, potentially less se=
cure, and harder to maintain codebase. The win of making it easier / &quot;=
nicer&quot; on a subset of developers who might prefer a C++ interface isn&=
#39;t anywhere near worth the risk IMO.</div></blockquote></div></div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">if any=
thing, I would rather go with rust (zig would have my preference ;-). The b=
enefits would be to have a significant ease to contribute for many.</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Neither of c++ or rust would be=
 easy to add. The later would have the huge advantage to bring a little bit=
 more safety to the extensions APIs.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">A less diplomatic answer would be that c++ makes zero sense in=
 2024 for php (or any other language), a strong and bold take :)</div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">best,</div><div dir=3D"auto">Pierr=
e</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Lol it&#39;s been a long morn=
ing, thanks for the laugh. Look through php&#39;s source code, do you see a=
ny mention of rust or zig? or any references to their compilers? PHP alread=
y supports C++20 (<a href=3D"https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/bui=
ld/php_cxx_compile_stdcxx.m4">https://github.com/php/php-src/blob/master/bu=
ild/php_cxx_compile_stdcxx.m4</a>) and has at least one extension implement=
ed in c++.=C2=A0<br><br></div><div>Do you genuinely believe that it makes m=
ore sense to add support for a new language (rust/zig) that will require it=
s own compiler (that isn&#39;t installed anywhere by default), than to impr=
ove support for a language already part of php?</div><div><br></div><div>Hu=
mor me and elaborate on why you think that &#39;c++ makes zero sense in 202=
4 for php (or any other language),&#39;</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,=C2=
=A0<br>Lanre.</div></div></div>

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