Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:124866 X-Original-To: internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: internals@lists.php.net Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (php-smtp4.php.net [45.112.84.5]) by qa.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9F4F1A00B7 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2024 17:16:54 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=php.net; s=mail; t=1723396718; bh=2cVG8I3bBPraJSvmcbv3ww/UQ7rE/cybrz3JWxl2vvE=; h=From:Subject:Date:References:Cc:In-Reply-To:To:From; b=E42Hl9fiDBo+3jhziEQ/4AyZWvoZYC6llelaf3b3xNBWownz5F8LHsjlYFOMsH51s qoizgS7THHnmiM/OGOrwHNEEWteqJC8dE5f8MobIC03FBny63TXrQPvgsr565R33NN 7tWoxwewNhVecuSHS3AWBB64UZG3lczbbYBMOYbcMwLxb+sDzMcEdw5snwMNhuQMpV zRJbhYJZIViOog5hVDSnrJg/OvAlbpqb5zNimMIYgPKPcWRl8Rkg2+N8MM73IRWfX4 FzlRzuf9SaqyPUel4n+VtX+uxdP2lqf38Yi+YRta8++mgFIXB3Umq5xUiWgBwheXRD q+G1B4dJT9YyA== Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4E6F1804BC for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2024 17:18:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,DMARC_PASS,FREEMAIL_FROM, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3,RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from mail-pj1-f45.google.com (mail-pj1-f45.google.com [209.85.216.45]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2024 17:18:34 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pj1-f45.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2cb7344ed8cso707735a91.2 for ; Sun, 11 Aug 2024 10:16:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1723396609; x=1724001409; darn=lists.php.net; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=OL9SUzRPMjHia1HNe1cCEZtFrDIpGjPT5VYvg6kqYc4=; b=KwdbZEu2zNw/uh937W+qBvycCjiEeaA7BBXx0J/ubs+c8+ZMGQc9+vFvoo6fb1Ifyw 9W7rPBEdRNb7/HWfkEpR5XHo0l3L+/kLffdtAt9zp0A+9ss3jhcg71JgJ4EpZd5aoqAp /9lPVJVY7ll6l0RzZHm5zGsqnZHUxGy16k4oU/SvFgy3q0d0AjW9nPdZ20shdR1+D/XG JrZls8Q+OShXKzf9h+IVeoFVKnbDAzyB6wl6YL0HJk53c4yez8Nf/gcOfJTojRDF9J8B CfjseoQ/0nGQjm+Z8hV3+4nnf7zPZUvdDrAlD49G0VkoBSCBzvvaIFWb9iyyiXLMFrhr ddKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1723396609; x=1724001409; h=to:in-reply-to:cc:references:message-id:date:subject:mime-version :from:content-transfer-encoding:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=OL9SUzRPMjHia1HNe1cCEZtFrDIpGjPT5VYvg6kqYc4=; b=h6BBYcRMT9iWPaavpaPK+IzpDlKnQItRAxQP0sxL/EDK9lD8O8H6TbJVVUpz3mDqZn FjZcWy2NkFtWzYlrLxqLF39OK+8aWjCmAxCJMPMjhN+X0DyGsVJpUFCoBxYYpHGOChEC e9LxBhcEHLdfDnFhIgY23yF25yLcRkN7ZiKK6Y2O9mAqZXDBwF+aPY5UEh9WKEMz2CI4 yoHeJ11o95aogzqi+ePb3VPVqXRC8jfXJnNeJ1NehMFgUCT3bvkH4y5ci/Lzo/pEuhi+ CA4yjWW4b/aQGGz3l0GCAN3x9pI2dAGPYGv/HRlWYyhFzsATokNoaQoD5pVqE1E1b9ne ddRg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCVNKeGtxKqJss0yie8om9fyvl97ln5cbUHtkXJeY1JV2os89wguTSdqLMQHloCGTZ/kWytX3/TDrdfmD1a0VhegZsTEdMUJZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxJDtcEYoTtGCD5C45zSAcCGGnCBZR2Iqqp3lCMz4e46nMcidNK XcjQqROFE+4+1OA2oC+tgL3wKTsv7LfGEy/WVYhNkS4T3kk9aDnTQMrdLw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFJGXcQXpjwcx6san8HVehtfodxzRMc9W7LWHQWsciFAxWscmLmeWRfeQ05aHCRQe7hiC2HVg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:b390:b0:2c8:4bca:f904 with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-2d1e7c6c935mr4975595a91.0.1723396609105; Sun, 11 Aug 2024 10:16:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([2804:18:106:9984:11e5:ba12:b356:1267]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-2d1fce56257sm3321769a91.7.2024.08.11.10.16.48 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 11 Aug 2024 10:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: bulk list-help: list-post: List-Id: internals.lists.php.net x-ms-reactions: disallow Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Updates needed to various RFCs Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2024 14:16:37 -0300 Message-ID: <6DF95BF3-C84E-4720-A000-1C401B596649@gmail.com> References: <068b201a-6fd8-4b54-aa01-a1267a7bd7c3@gmx.de> Cc: Juliette Reinders Folmer , "internals@lists.php.net >> PHP internals" In-Reply-To: <068b201a-6fd8-4b54-aa01-a1267a7bd7c3@gmx.de> To: "Christoph M. Becker" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (21F90) From: deleugyn@gmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Marco_Aur=C3=A9lio_Deleu?=) > On 11 Aug 2024, at 13:59, Christoph M. Becker wrote: >=20 > On a general note, the whole administrative part of the RFC process > feels like we're stuck in the 20th century. For instance, to start the > vote, you are supposed to: >=20 > * update the RFC page to "voting" status > * add the doodle voting macro > * add the voting start and end dates to the text of the RFC > * move the RFC to "voting" on the RFC overview page > * send an email to the ML announcing the start of voting >=20 > Wut? Might as well ask me to send a punched card to someone. >=20 > Cheers, > Christoph I'd be willing to bet that PHP community members would gladly reimplement th= e RFC system, voting, etc. and gift that to the PHP Group. However, whenever= these conversations popup on internals, it is received with resistance to c= hange and with unsound requirements such as "we can't use any PHP framework t= o not seem like we favour one group over the other". What's left behind is e= xactly what you described here: outdated process and implementation. The PHP= community spent a large chunk of work in the late 2010s just to phase out c= orporate homemade frameworks for the usual maintenance reasons.=