Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:124696
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=utf-8
Precedence: bulk
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.8\))
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] [VOTE] Deprecations for PHP 8.4
In-Reply-To: <2244a37f-8c51-448d-8a56-329ff32e6470@bastelstu.be>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 21:07:57 -0400
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-ID: <AE6EAAFA-3E8F-4B7C-877F-D84FBA8178C5@newclarity.net>
References: <USzt7tZZlO1DmAbSTLhD-bqa23FqZn0zk2aah8Ndxgk9c7RY5PefQ8MjbYPUYAzr2_m4Cf-5AI4PuNBTS84rim_FNS6RaT-cWSv714HEvvU=@gpb.moe>
 <1a88918e-e808-d778-45e1-53797660e093@php.net>
 <CAPrKfG5Cw_nU7g7FR+t4C1-YZ8CDsDO_-sRs=yEsHO5kCTZL+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <c03eb187-bd21-4a4b-9faf-8d0243eaa994@varteg.nz>
 <aa6bc7aa-28d9-40ca-974f-65075adb6199@rwec.co.uk>
 <3563cf9b-8eab-4c82-b525-a5d2f9a767bb@varteg.nz>
 <38920A4B-790D-48C7-B2F6-C49D3F506232@rwec.co.uk>
 <0824789d-0e36-4628-85c1-4b8d9b7f86af@varteg.nz>
 <ab8c974a-c31c-4ff6-974d-0a8c962d5e22@app.fastmail.com>
 <2244a37f-8c51-448d-8a56-329ff32e6470@bastelstu.be>
To: =?utf-8?Q?Tim_D=C3=BCsterhus?= <tim@bastelstu.be>
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)

> On Jul 30, 2024, at 4:26 PM, Tim D=C3=BCsterhus <tim@bastelstu.be> =
wrote:
> The problem with adding standalone functions for every algorithm is =
that it would result in a combinatorial explosion of available =
functions.

I commented on this but as it was probably missed in a longer reply so I =
will repeat.

There is no overwhelming benefit to having a dedicated function for =
*every* combination. However I can see a benefits to having a dedicated =
function for the most commonly used functions.

To decide which, follow the Pareto principle where ~20% of functions =
used ~80% of the time get their own function. Deciding which are the 20% =
can be determined by statistical analysis of public code bases, or where =
there is no existing evidence for new functionality, by voters opinions.

-Mike

P.S. BTW, I do acknowledge your earlier point about more functions =3D=3D =
more documentation =E2=80=94 the first I've heard anyone mention that, =
so kudos for shining a light on it =E2=80=94 but I wonder if that effort =
might not be reduced by finding ways to shared duplicated information =
from a single source?

Maybe one way to address the effort required for docs is to provide =
incentive that could shift some of the burden of documentation onto =
those who want to see more added to core?  Maybe:

1.) Encourage docs to be prewritten for RFCs calling for more functions, =
to motivate people to do the docs work up-front by having a policy to =
vote against RFCs without pre-written docs,=20

2.) Provide a prominent TODO queue of doc items needed with =
good-first-task tags that you can point people to on the list who argue =
for things requiring a lot of documentation while saying "Well, if you =
can't be bothered to update the current docs how do we know you'll help =
maintain the docs for what you are asking for?" (admittedly this would =
probably take a bit of coding to implement),=20

3.) And finally host one or more "How to write docs for PHP" Zoom =
sessions that get recorded and posted to YouTube to empower more people =
to know how to do it and to provide links for discussions where you call =
for help=20

(I, for one, really have no idea how to get started helping to clean up =
the docs, nor do I have any idea where the most need is.)

#jmtcw