Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:124611
Feedback-ID: ifab94697:Fastmail
User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.11.0-alpha0-582-g5a02f8850-fm-20240719.002-g5a02f885
Precedence: bulk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <161d5b04-4d94-47e9-a248-61639d688381@app.fastmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <4e7714cb-0d88-43f5-aa30-9adb799e0b28@seld.be>
References: <0a6a61cd-f203-4dea-a7f8-97e6b885c52d@app.fastmail.com>
 <b5c0be62-ea39-47fb-a8f8-ab6cd5ee3dab@app.fastmail.com>
 <CP8P284MB2148CB72E1A6A7AB5F29E8F093AE2@CP8P284MB2148.BRAP284.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
 <a3154cde-73ca-4b8e-bf90-b9aeabd5fbce@app.fastmail.com>
 <66c4ac1c-b3d7-4b20-b986-1fe1a464f485@app.fastmail.com>
 <4e7714cb-0d88-43f5-aa30-9adb799e0b28@seld.be>
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 14:58:48 +0200
To: "Jordi Boggiano" <j.boggiano@seld.be>, internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Asymmetric Visibility, v2
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary=69237eddce364fb98269ec858beb99b0
From: rob@bottled.codes ("Rob Landers")

--69237eddce364fb98269ec858beb99b0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Fri, Jul 26, 2024, at 13:36, Jordi Boggiano wrote:
> On 21.07.2024 11:21, Rob Landers wrote:
>>=20
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024, at 23:51, Larry Garfield wrote:
>>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024, at 7:22 AM, Rodrigo Vieira wrote:
>>> > Will the alternative syntax on hook not even be put to a vote?
>>>=20
>>> It was, a year and a half ago when Aviz was first proposed.  The pre=
ference was split, but leaned toward the prefix-style syntax.  So we wen=
t with that.  I don't think we'll ever get everyone to want the same syn=
tax, but we're using the one that was both somewhat more popular, and (a=
s discussed in the RFC) arguably superior.
>>>=20
>>> As the "comments in yield from" thread has shown, *any* even slight =
change to PHP's syntax will require work from static analysis tools.  Th=
at's the nature of the problem space, regardless of the syntax specifics.
>>>=20
>>> --Larry Garfield
>>>=20
>>=20
>> Just to play devil=E2=80=99s advocate, it was also before we had prop=
erty hooks who advertised itself as a way to =E2=80=9Cwrap and guard acc=
ess to object properties=E2=80=9D but we are simply ignoring their exist=
ence here.
>>=20
> Just to compare them, because my initial gut feel was to say "yes plea=
se just put this together with hooks"..
>=20
> As far as I understand these would be the two options?
>=20
>      class C {
>          public protected(set) $answer { get =3D> 42; set =3D> { $this=
->answer =3D $value * 2; }
>          public private(set) $publicReadOnly;
>      }
>=20
>=20
>      class C {
>          public $answer { get =3D> 42; protected set =3D> { $this->ans=
wer =3D $value * 2; }
>          public $publicReadOnly { private set; }
>      }
>=20
> And now that I see it spelled out more, I do agree that while it appea=
rs a bit more verbose, and this "(set)" looks odd at first, having all t=
he visibility upfront is a lot clearer than having to read through the h=
ooks to see what visibility applies.

On a large property hook that potentially span hundreds of lines, I'd ra=
ther only need to scroll up to the "set =3D>" to see how it is set vs. g=
oing all the way back up to the property itself.
--69237eddce364fb98269ec858beb99b0
Content-Type: text/html;charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">
p.MsoNormal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div><br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>On Fri, Jul 26, 2024, at 13:36, Jordi Boggiano wrote=
:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div class=3D"=
qt-moz-cite-prefix">On 21.07.2024 11:21, Rob Landers wrote:<br></div><bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite" cite=3D"mid:66c4ac1c-b3d7-4b20-b986-1fe1a464f485@=
app.fastmail.com"><div><br></div><div>On Sat, Jul 20, 2024, at 23:51, La=
rry Garfield wrote:<br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt-qt" styl=
e=3D""><div>On Sat, Jul 20, 2024, at 7:22 AM, Rodrigo Vieira wrote:<br><=
/div><div>&gt; Will the alternative syntax on hook not even be put to
          a vote?<br></div><div><br></div><div>It was, a year and a half=
 ago when Aviz was first
          proposed.&nbsp; The preference was split, but leaned toward the
          prefix-style syntax.&nbsp; So we went with that.&nbsp; I don't=
 think
          we'll ever get everyone to want the same syntax, but we're
          using the one that was both somewhat more popular, and (as
          discussed in the RFC) arguably superior.<br></div><div><br></d=
iv><div>As the "comments in yield from" thread has shown, *any*
          even slight change to PHP's syntax will require work from
          static analysis tools.&nbsp; That's the nature of the problem
          space, regardless of the syntax specifics.<br></div><div><br><=
/div><div>--Larry Garfield<br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><div><br=
></div><div>Just to play devil=E2=80=99s advocate, it was also before we=
 had
        property hooks who advertised itself as a way to =E2=80=9Cwrap a=
nd guard
        access to object properties=E2=80=9D but we are simply ignoring =
their
        existence here.<br></div><div><br></div></blockquote><p>Just to =
compare them, because my initial gut feel was to say "yes
      please just put this together with hooks"..<br></p><p>As far as I =
understand these would be the two options?<br></p><pre class=3D"qt-moz-q=
uote-pre">     class C {
         public protected(set) $answer { get =3D&gt; 42; set =3D&gt; { $=
this-&gt;answer =3D $value * 2; }
         public private(set) $publicReadOnly;
     }


     class C {
         public $answer { get =3D&gt; 42; protected set =3D&gt; { $this-=
&gt;answer =3D $value * 2; }
         public $publicReadOnly { private set; }
     }

And now that I see it spelled out more, I do agree that while it appears=
 a bit more verbose, and this "(set)" looks odd at first, having all the=
 visibility upfront is a lot clearer than having to read through the hoo=
ks to see what visibility applies.<br></pre></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>On a large property hook that potentially span hundreds of lines, I=
'd rather only need to scroll up to the "set =3D&gt;" to see how it is s=
et vs. going all the way back up to the property itself.<br></div></body=
></html>
--69237eddce364fb98269ec858beb99b0--