Newsgroups: php.internals Path: news.php.net Xref: news.php.net php.internals:124498 X-Original-To: internals@lists.php.net Delivered-To: internals@lists.php.net Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (php-smtp4.php.net [45.112.84.5]) by qa.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 086F61A00B7 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2024 19:49:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=php.net; s=mail; t=1721332264; bh=jXzlvl+Davjq0HiddMTT3MGtuyAbXcVhmrNiJ4aNjrI=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To:From; b=ndZIbGeV0Q/YoEIkpTj0A/r1ADnVH/Vl4/yruWGcub+WqGzcHrDsAewIiwiKswivA SOWz4Xc8OW99hV7K9BwLFXt6y9S0zwoW+IE+CuKahaR6IrhuxAWtgfSxLqbh/ryPSD OQXSF8wRj/fl2iHx3FHKp5jRbx5uzvlaabtGMgxoCKkZno4ni0pIJH3Bz5MB2BbsYM BpwVf+2zDjyY6Jwnk9zhVC3vz+lmfRTUBvcAMc10l5+yxcrqvr5/5De5tlt9y8L5Oj ghNaGyRDnEv9WBcKtkbN9OOoZQ+G8mHe9HpZTxDpvjqqut5udB/dOuYY31iu9CZxnW x7eNHdoYNW05g== Received: from php-smtp4.php.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECA38180769 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2024 19:51:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-13) on php-smtp4.php.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_50,DKIM_SIGNED, DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,DKIM_VALID_EF,DMARC_PASS,SPF_HELO_NONE, SPF_PASS autolearn=no autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 X-Spam-Virus: No X-Envelope-From: Received: from chrono.xqk7.com (chrono.xqk7.com [176.9.45.72]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by php-smtp4.php.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2024 19:51:03 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bastelstu.be; s=mail20171119; t=1721332171; bh=mMe7q+vKhY7VExxhzl1iOKuOh3GQUl7NlK8ZbuwQqR4=; h=Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:Cc:References:From: In-Reply-To:Content-Type:from:to:cc:subject:message-id; b=IxYJqQzJueADrlc6HrmmbES+XO3aEhv1jN+k3RASzH83+9pKTx3XxzoohPNHvBtgG GGAlYaiFaHXHle1UG7LslxglUNTDIphXMKwELeEIriB+Uo7oV9sOkLh5en5xSN5frk hHoNyc84Gy56TjxngyX82YRsFQWJshp2jcpJ4WDu/Xqx435zFRRi5EEwL821+1xiXM frHdSNd7cRWvoef3wdYEXLYUfv9qtoX1vBx5B36fmHwXFPUqAxHLf8ZEluZbkjLpWf qddkUg5I6uWbkXRLS9Trli/bDeqCIA17Oe/JYVvErE2Bck3wejvA4Gz9quwP8CKF3M FpNO0zMZT7+qg== Message-ID: Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2024 21:49:29 +0200 Precedence: bulk list-help: list-post: List-Id: internals.lists.php.net x-ms-reactions: disallow MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Lazy Objects To: Rob Landers , Nicolas Grekas Cc: PHP Internals List References: <1118bbcd-a7b4-47bf-bf35-1a36ab4628e1@bastelstu.be> <45847b93-02bf-459f-bcd2-81ba35a12c24@bastelstu.be> <46bd4098-2936-4e46-98e9-fe55118325c2@bastelstu.be> <61ab36bc-b045-452a-84e0-87367d4c680e@bastelstu.be> <040d363e-4e56-408b-b066-928eac82b9c4@app.fastmail.com> Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <040d363e-4e56-408b-b066-928eac82b9c4@app.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: tim@bastelstu.be (=?UTF-8?Q?Tim_D=C3=BCsterhus?=) Hi On 7/12/24 08:47, Rob Landers wrote: > I think it would be up to the developer writing the proxy framework to use or abuse this As I've just explained in my reply to Nicolas this is observable to the user and thus leaks implementation details of the proxy framework. > Currently, clone's default behavior is already astonishing for value > objects! clone has specific well-defined semantics: You get a distinct object with identical state (unless a __clone() method is implemented). Lazy proxies as specified in the RFC violate that. That you do not like the existing cloning semantics is an unrelated matter that is not relevant to this discussion. Best regards Tim Düsterhus