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In-Reply-To: <EA1B29C9-2EDB-4449-8BC1-5ED09D29A336@newclarity.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2024 23:56:09 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMrTa2HqHesQezW6=zZsTvRX6Z3Y0+0+muH=HyZe3y4tTO1dTg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [PHP-Dev] Versioned Packagers (Iteration IV)
To: Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net>
Cc: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>, php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: jordan.ledoux@gmail.com (Jordan LeDoux)

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On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 11:42=E2=80=AFPM Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net>=
 wrote:

> [snip]
> My one useful takeaway from your email =E2=80=94 except that I already kn=
ew that =E2=80=94
> was the need to figure out how PHP can handle multiple symbol tables.
> Beyond that, your take your own advice and spare us (me) from your contem=
pt
> and condescension as they are not good looks on anyone.
>
>
While Larry was very blunt (and I don't really fault him for that either),
that should not be your only takeaway. The short version was that he was
telling you, and the other people in this thread, to stop pontificating and
to do something that resembles developing/researching a solution. A lot of
the people who actually have experience working on the engine are literally
ignoring this conversation right now (and may come back to it next month)
because it's just too much noise and nonsense right when we're near feature
freeze.

Your focus and intent to drive this discussion towards trying to duplicate
composer reduces its usefulness. I get that you do not like
PSR-4/composer/whatever. I honestly cannot wade through the 15,000-ish
words you've sent in these threads to nail down the specifics. But I know
for a fact that an attempt to redesign composer is:

1. Orthogonal to PHP modules (they have nothing to do with each other from
a design perspective).
2. Doomed to failure.

Your one useful takeaway, that Larry gave you specific steps for, is to
focus on the feature the original proposer of the thread was trying for,
instead of continuing to derail it into composer-related nonsense.

Jordan

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 11:42=E2=80=AF=
PM Mike Schinkel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mike@newclarity.net">mike@newclarity=
.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex">[snip]<br><div>
My one useful takeaway from your email =E2=80=94 except that I already knew=
 that =E2=80=94 was the need to figure out how PHP can handle multiple symb=
ol tables.=C2=A0 Beyond that, your take your own advice and spare us (me) f=
rom your contempt and condescension as they are not good looks on anyone.<b=
r>
<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>While Larry was very blunt (and =
I don&#39;t really fault him for that either), that should not be your only=
 takeaway. The short version was that he was telling you, and the other peo=
ple in this thread, to stop pontificating and to do something that resemble=
s developing/researching a solution. A lot of the people who actually have =
experience working on the engine are literally ignoring this conversation r=
ight now (and may come back to it next month) because it&#39;s just too muc=
h noise and nonsense right when we&#39;re near feature freeze.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Your focus and intent to drive this discussion towards trying =
to duplicate composer reduces its usefulness. I get that you do not like PS=
R-4/composer/whatever. I honestly cannot wade through the 15,000-ish words =
you&#39;ve sent in these threads to nail down the specifics. But I know for=
 a fact that an attempt to redesign composer is:</div><div><br></div><div>1=
. Orthogonal to PHP modules (they have nothing to do with each other from a=
 design perspective).</div><div>2. Doomed to failure. <br></div><div><br></=
div><div>Your one useful takeaway, that Larry gave you specific steps for, =
is to focus on the feature the original proposer of the thread was trying f=
or, instead of continuing to derail it into composer-related nonsense.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Jordan<br></div></div></div>

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