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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [PHP-Dev] Versioned Packagers (Iteration IV)
In-Reply-To: <E212751F-13E6-455F-B210-BE65744E5A43@chaz.works>
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 14:02:57 -0400
Cc: Michael Morris <tendoaki@gmail.com>,
 PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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To: Chuck Adams <chaz@chaz.works>
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)

Hi Chuck,

> On Jul 4, 2024, at 11:05 AM, Chuck Adams <chaz@chaz.works> wrote:
>> On Jul 3, 2024, at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM, Michael Morris =
<tendoaki@gmail.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Hello all. Hitting reset again as the primary problem at hand has =
become clear.  Let's recap it.
>>=20
>> Autoloading is great for loading packages, but it can't load =
different versions of the same package at the same time.  Why would you =
want to do that?
>>=20
>> When you don't have full control of the code.in=20
>>=20
>> For example, consider Drupal.  It is running Twig at some version of =
3 at the moment. Suppose Twig 4 is introduced with significant backward =
compatibility breaks (Not saying the authors would do such a thing) but =
also wonderful features.
>> =E2=80=A6[snip]...
>> This is why I advocate a new keyword for this - import.  Import=E2=80=99=
s behavior is most similar to require_once, but it doesn't have to be =
the same.  Since it is a new entrypoint into the engine the way the =
engine considers the code can be different - whether slightly different =
or radically different is a debate for another time. I'm going to stick =
with only those changes that make sense in the context of package links.
>=20
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m seeing a lot of conflation of =E2=80=98module=E2=80=99 and =
=E2=80=98package=E2=80=99 in these discussions, and to me they mean =
different things:
>=20
> * A module is a sort of =E2=80=9Cfirst class namespace=E2=80=9D that =
can export symbols and import others.  Think ES5 or python modules.  If =
you don=E2=80=99t want it 1-1 with files, think Perl modules.
>=20
> * A package is an =E2=80=9Cinstallable=E2=80=9D unit that provides =
modules, among other things.  Packages have metadata, the most important =
piece of which is a machine-readable version.

Your definitions are language-specific.  For example, in Go the =
definitions for those terms are the opposite of how you defined them.

The point being that PHP is free to choose how they are defined with =
respect to PHP. =20

To which I will add "as long as the terms are used consistently."

-Mike=