Newsgroups: php.internals
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Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2024 15:05:58 +0000
To: Michael Morris <tendoaki@gmail.com>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [PHP-Dev] Versioned Packagers (Iteration IV)
Message-ID: <E212751F-13E6-455F-B210-BE65744E5A43@chaz.works>
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From: chaz@chaz.works (Chuck Adams)



> On Jul 3, 2024, at 6:16=E2=80=AFPM, Michael Morris <tendoaki@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>=20
> Hello all. Hitting reset again as the primary problem at hand has become =
clear.  Let's recap it.
>=20
> Autoloading is great for loading packages, but it can't load different ve=
rsions of the same package at the same time.  Why would you want to do that=
?
>=20
> When you don't have full control of the code.
>=20
> For example, consider Drupal.  It is running Twig at some version of 3 at=
 the moment. Suppose Twig 4 is introduced with significant backward compati=
bility breaks (Not saying the authors would do such a thing) but also wonde=
rful features.
> =E2=80=A6[snip]...
> This is why I advocate a new keyword for this - import.  Import=E2=80=
=99s behavior is most similar to require_once, but it doesn't have to be th=
e same.  Since it is a new entrypoint into the engine the way the engine co=
nsiders the code can be different - whether slightly different or radically=
 different is a debate for another time. I'm going to stick with only those=
 changes that make sense in the context of package links.


I=E2=80=99m seeing a lot of conflation of =E2=80=98module=E2=80=99 and =
=E2=80=98package=E2=80=99 in these discussions, and to me they mean differe=
nt things:

* A module is a sort of =E2=80=9Cfirst class namespace=E2=80=9D that can ex=
port symbols and import others.  Think ES5 or python modules.  If you don=
=E2=80=99t want it 1-1 with files, think Perl modules.

* A package is an =E2=80=9Cinstallable=E2=80=9D unit that provides modules,=
 among other things.  Packages have metadata, the most important piece of w=
hich is a machine-readable version.

Certainly there=E2=80=99s overlap between the two, but the first is a more =
low-level thing that doesn=E2=80=99t need worry itself about versioning let=
 alone multiple simultaneous versions.  I just don=E2=80=99t want to see th=
e possibility of having basic =E2=80=9Cimport=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cexport=
=E2=80=9D functionality crushed under the bikeshed while all the fine seman=
tics of versioning are worked out. =20

=E2=80=94c