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Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2024 11:37:15 +0100
Message-ID: <CAKcc2m8jLyYkXH5fuJY=EGCFFCAfHUMVpEu3-KGev3E9fy_Z-A@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Iteration III: Packages (was Re: [PHP-DEV] [Initial
 Feedback] PHP User Modules - An Adaptation of ES6 from JavaScript)
To: Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes>
Cc: "Matthew Weier O'Phinney" <mweierophinney@gmail.com>, Stephen Reay <php-lists@koalephant.com>, 
	Vincent de Lau <vincent@delau.nl>, PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: kguest@php.net (Ken Guest)

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On Thu, 4 Jul 2024 at 07:32, Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes> wrote:

>
> My main feedback to PSR=E2=80=99s is that they are fundamentally broken d=
ue to
> being outdated. The idea behind the standards is sound, but there are onl=
y
> a few PSRs that are applicable to today=E2=80=99s PHP. When I look at cre=
ating new
> libraries today, PSR=E2=80=99s are a good inspiration, but they probably =
shouldn=E2=80=99t
> be used in actual programs. Here=E2=80=99s a short list of outdated stand=
ards I=E2=80=99ve
> collected over the last couple of years:
>
>
>    - 7
>    - 11
>    - 15
>    - 18
>    - 20
>
> Most of these breakdown if you start dealing with fibers, various new
> scopes introduced by runtimes, new http standards, etc.
>
> Ergo, if you=E2=80=99ve run into these issues, you are likely inclined to=
 stay as
> far away from PSR=E2=80=99s as reasonably possible and may have a negativ=
e view of
> them. However, for enterprise applications, PSR=E2=80=99s are a godsend. =
So they do
> have their uses, don=E2=80=99t get me wrong, but if you want to use techn=
ology
> newer than 2019-ish, you need to avoid them; and this is a large part of
> why I say PSR-XX isn=E2=80=99t a valid argument on this list.
>

This is one of the reasons why we [FIG] now have the concept of PHP
Evolving Recommendations (PERs), which can be updated/evolved over time
with multiple releases - instead of having having a succession of PSRs and
having to know which one supersedes another.

The only example of this thus far is PER-CS for Coding Standards - version
1 being the PER equivalent of PSR-12 and version 2 of PER-CS being an
update addressing syntax in PHP that was not present when PSR-12, e.g.
match, enums, attributes and all that other wonderful stuff.

There is no reason why any current PSR can't be replaced with a PER
equivalent - given a Working Group, time and focus.

Except maybe PSR-8.



--=20
http://about.me/kenguest/

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, 4 Jul 2024 at 07:32, Rob Land=
ers &lt;rob@bottled.codes&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"msg-916498676836604871"><u></u><div><div=
><br></div><div>My main feedback to PSR=E2=80=99s is that they are fundamen=
tally broken due to being outdated. The idea behind the standards is sound,=
 but there are only a few PSRs that are applicable to today=E2=80=99s PHP. =
When I look at creating new libraries today, PSR=E2=80=99s are a good inspi=
ration, but they probably shouldn=E2=80=99t be used in actual programs. Her=
e=E2=80=99s a short list of outdated standards I=E2=80=99ve collected over =
the last couple of years:<br></div><div><br></div><ul><li>7<br></li><li>11<=
br></li><li>15<br></li><li>18<br></li><li>20<br></li></ul><div>Most of thes=
e breakdown if you start dealing with fibers, various new scopes introduced=
 by runtimes, new http standards, etc.=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><div>E=
rgo, if you=E2=80=99ve run into these issues, you are likely inclined to st=
ay as far away from PSR=E2=80=99s as reasonably possible and may have a neg=
ative view of them. However, for enterprise applications, PSR=E2=80=99s are=
 a godsend. So they do have their uses, don=E2=80=99t get me wrong, but if =
you want to use technology newer than 2019-ish, you need to avoid them; and=
 this is a large part of why I say PSR-XX isn=E2=80=99t a valid argument on=
 this list.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is one o=
f the reasons why we [FIG] now have the concept of=20
PHP Evolving Recommendations (PERs), which can=20
be updated/evolved over time with multiple releases - instead of having hav=
ing a succession of PSRs and having to know which one supersedes another.<b=
r></div><div><br></div><div>The only example of this thus far is=20
PER-CS for Coding Standards - version 1 being the PER equivalent of PSR-12 =
and version 2 of PER-CS being an update addressing syntax in PHP that was n=
ot present when PSR-12, e.g. match, enums, attributes and all that other wo=
nderful stuff.<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div></div><div>There is no reason why =
any current PSR can&#39;t be replaced with a PER equivalent - given a Worki=
ng Group, time and focus.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Except maybe PSR-8.<=
/div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><span class=3D"gmail_signature_=
prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http://about.me/kenguest/" target=3D"_blank">http://abo=
ut.me/kenguest/</a></div></div></div></div>

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