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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Iteration III: Packages (was Re: [PHP-DEV] [Initial
 Feedback] PHP User Modules - An Adaptation of ES6 from JavaScript)
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 21:00:15 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAEUnE0fQgxG0sEaThwkaF23GeSKF-dUULrXakF+SB+khTRKO6A@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
To: Michael Morris <tendoaki@gmail.com>
References: <09559430-4477-4516-8D78-6F4071E1AA6C@newclarity.net>
 <0182F3D6-F464-477F-9029-A2D0A8B50C71@koalephant.com>
 <86A83E30-00CE-434F-B316-EB9A55F92BDD@newclarity.net>
 <CAEUnE0fQgxG0sEaThwkaF23GeSKF-dUULrXakF+SB+khTRKO6A@mail.gmail.com>
From: mike@newclarity.net (Mike Schinkel)


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> On Jul 3, 2024, at 8:24 PM, Michael Morris <tendoaki@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 7:52=E2=80=AFPM Mike Schinkel =
<mike@newclarity.net <mailto:mike@newclarity.net>> wrote:
> Me personally, the opinions that I do not like are the one-symbol-per =
file assumption, which is also a key issue I have with PSR-4.=20
>=20
> That's a PSR-4 issue, not an autoloader one. Autoloaders, even in =
composer, can use class maps to discover which file must be loaded to =
make the symbol accessible, even if multiple unused symbols in that file =
come along for the ride.

My statement you are commenting on was about `spl_autoload` and PSR-4, =
full stop.

> 2. Symbol encapsulation =E2=80=94 Allowing symbols to be hidden from =
code that should not use them.
>=20
> Uhm, I'm not formally trained so that one got by me - could you please =
give an example of this? I might have posted one already without =
realizing it.

Which part?  Symbol, or Encapsulation?

If Symbols, that is just the collective name for classes, interfaces, =
enums, functions, constants and variables.

If Encapsulation, then that means symbol hiding.  PHP offers only =
limited forms of symbol hiding with `private` and `protected`.  =
Currently it is not possible in PHP to have a top-level symbol in a =
namespace =E2=80=94 vs. just a function, property or constant enclosed =
in and as part of a class =E2=80=94 that a developer can disallow other =
developers from accessing via regular access methods, e.g. instantiating =
the class, implementing the interface, using the constant, calling the =
function. etc.

Does that answer?

-Mike=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On =
Jul 3, 2024, at 8:24 PM, Michael Morris &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tendoaki@gmail.com" class=3D"">tendoaki@gmail.com</a>&gt; =
wrote:</div><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul =
3, 2024 at 7:52=E2=80=AFPM Mike Schinkel &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:mike@newclarity.net" class=3D"">mike@newclarity.net</a>&gt;=
 wrote:</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px =
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">Me personally, the opinions that I do not like are the =
one-symbol-per file assumption, which is also a key issue I have with =
PSR-4.&nbsp;</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">That's a PSR-4 issue, not an autoloader =
one. Autoloaders, even in composer, can use class maps to discover which =
file must be loaded to make the symbol accessible, even if multiple =
unused symbols in that file come along for the =
ride.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></div></div></div></div><div>My statement you are =
commenting on was about `spl_autoload` and PSR-4, full stop.</div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: =
break-word;" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D"">2.&nbsp;<b =
class=3D"">Symbol encapsulation</b>&nbsp;=E2=80=94 Allowing symbols to =
be hidden from code that should not use =
them.</div></div></div></blockquote><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Uhm, I'm not formally trained so that =
one got by me - could you please give an example of this? I might have =
posted one already without realizing =
it.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Which =
part? &nbsp;Symbol, or Encapsulation?</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>If Symbols, that is just the collective name for =
classes, interfaces, enums, functions, constants and =
variables.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>If Encapsulation, then =
that means symbol hiding. &nbsp;PHP offers only limited forms of symbol =
hiding with `private` and `protected`. &nbsp;Currently it is not =
possible in PHP to have a top-level symbol in a namespace =E2=80=94 vs. =
just a function, property or constant enclosed in and as part of a class =
=E2=80=94 that a developer can disallow other developers from accessing =
via regular access methods, e.g. instantiating the class, implementing =
the interface, using the constant, calling the function. =
etc.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Does that =
answer?</div></div><br class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">-Mike</div></body></html>=

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