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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2024 16:52:08 -0600
Message-ID: <CAM7F2-8y6jtWSRgbCGLF85f6EgMApFjep9H3nKc5n8-Mp5nJDA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Re: [Discussion] Add date_test_set_now() function
To: Jorg Sowa <jorg.sowa@gmail.com>
Cc: Larry Garfield <larry@garfieldtech.com>, php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: lnearwaju@gmail.com (Lanre)

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On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 2:21=E2=80=AFPM Jorg Sowa <jorg.sowa@gmail.com> wrot=
e:

> > You don=E2=80=99t make any effort to help or provide constructive criti=
cism; you
> just love to (incorrectly) tell everyone what they're doing wrong and how
> they should be doing it, without adding anything constructive to the
> conversation.
>
> Please limit to the arguments on the topic, not a person.
>
> The argument "Relying on the global mutable state is a bug" is completely
> valid and in most of the cases is the signal of bad design. And it has be=
en
> already addressed in some of the functions, look at
> https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_8_3 for deprecations on rand
> functions. However, it's not so trivial to fix everything introducing
> compatibility-breaking changes. So it shouldn't be advised to add more of
> such functions.
>
> Kind regards,
> Jorg
>

It still doesn't make sense. Even if we removed all the functions from my
list, the entire engine remains filled with global state. Internal
zend_class_entry instances, arginfo macros, the interned string table,
executor/compiler/scanner/each-extension globals, and so on=E2=80=94all con=
tribute
to global state -- or bugs according to you and Larry, unless your stupid
argument applies only to languages under your control. Do I think it always
makes sense to use global state? Absolutely not. But I won't go as far as
to imply that relying on 'global mutable state' inevitably leads to bugs.

Cheers,
Lanre

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 2:21=E2=80=AFP=
M Jorg Sowa &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jorg.sowa@gmail.com">jorg.sowa@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><=
div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div>&gt; You don=E2=80=99t make any effort =
to help or provide constructive criticism; you
 just love to (incorrectly) tell everyone what they&#39;re doing wrong and=
=20
how they should be doing it, without adding anything constructive to the
 conversation.<br><br></div>Please limit to the arguments on the topic, not=
 a person.<br><br></div>The argument &quot;Relying on the global mutable st=
ate is a bug&quot; is completely valid and in most of the cases is the sign=
al of bad design. And it has been already addressed in some of the function=
s, look at <a href=3D"https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_8_3" target=
=3D"_blank">https://wiki.php.net/rfc/deprecations_php_8_3</a> for deprecati=
ons on rand functions. However, it&#39;s not so trivial to fix everything i=
ntroducing compatibility-breaking changes. So it shouldn&#39;t be advised t=
o add more of such functions.<br><br></div>Kind regards,<br></div>Jorg<br><=
/div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It still doesn&#39;t make sense. Even=
 if we removed all the functions from my list, the entire engine remains fi=
lled with global state. Internal zend_class_entry instances, arginfo macros=
, the interned string table, executor/compiler/scanner/each-extension globa=
ls, and so on=E2=80=94all contribute to global state -- or bugs according t=
o you and Larry, unless your stupid argument applies only to languages unde=
r your control. Do I think it always makes sense to use global state? Absol=
utely not. But I won&#39;t go as far as to imply that relying on &#39;globa=
l mutable state&#39; inevitably leads to bugs.<br></div><div><br></div><div=
>Cheers,</div><div>Lanre=C2=A0</div></div></div>

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