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In-Reply-To: <7593EA45-DF41-43DE-9EAD-F3CCFC8A7D47@newclarity.net>
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2024 13:54:34 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMrTa2F_76OkQfgdRxL1yh3wkey90UBsts9HcEGXrwDPwVcVoA@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] Iteration III: Packages (was Re: [PHP-DEV] [Initial
 Feedback] PHP User Modules - An Adaptation of ES6 from JavaScript)
To: Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net>
Cc: Dusk <dusk@woofle.net>, Arvids Godjuks <arvids.godjuks@gmail.com>, 
	PHP internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: jordan.ledoux@gmail.com (Jordan LeDoux)

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On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 11:09=E2=80=AFAM Mike Schinkel <mike@newclarity.net>=
 wrote:

>
> > and I'm fairly certain after keeping up with the thread that it is
> almost universally not what people want. Most people just want the toolbo=
x
> be "finished" so to speak, not get a completely new one in addition that
> has no compatibility with the old one.
>
> I get it. I am no longer proposing an alternative to the autoloader. PHP
> developers are comfortable with autoloading and that is that.
>
> But that does not mean that I cannot tell you and others the emperor has
> no clothes in hopes that people eventually see that there can be better
> alternatives.
>
> -Mike


I'm not sure that constantly reiterating a point that everyone already
knows but simply disagrees with is productive for the list, considering
that the objection boils down to "but I don't like it" instead of "here are
the concrete technical drawbacks". All of the objections you had seemed to
be from the perspective "but what if the developer is only allowed 100
files on disk and only uses notepad to edit the code?" I don't think those
are technical drawbacks personally, I think those are developers that need
to at least start programming like they are living in 2005.

Jordan

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 11:09=E2=80=AF=
AM Mike Schinkel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mike@newclarity.net">mike@newclarity=
.net</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><br>
&gt; and I&#39;m fairly certain after keeping up with the thread that it is=
 almost universally not what people want. Most people just want the toolbox=
 be &quot;finished&quot; so to speak, not get a completely new one in addit=
ion that has no compatibility with the old one.<br>
<br>
I get it. I am no longer proposing an alternative to the autoloader. PHP de=
velopers are comfortable with autoloading and that is that.<br>
<br>
But that does not mean that I cannot tell you and others the emperor has no=
 clothes in hopes that people eventually see that there can be better alter=
natives.<br>
<br>
-Mike</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m not sure that constantly reit=
erating a point that everyone already knows but simply disagrees with is pr=
oductive for the list, considering that the objection boils down to &quot;b=
ut I don&#39;t like it&quot; instead of &quot;here are the concrete technic=
al drawbacks&quot;. All of the objections you had seemed to be from the per=
spective &quot;but what if the developer is only allowed 100 files on disk =
and only uses notepad to edit the code?&quot; I don&#39;t think those are t=
echnical drawbacks personally, I think those are developers that need to at=
 least start programming like they are living in 2005.<br></div><div><br></=
div><div>Jordan <br></div></div></div>

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