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Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Initial Feedback] Typed Arrays
Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2024 21:05:08 -0600
In-Reply-To: <07A8534A-1B45-4F15-A78B-AA7DDF92B8B6@koalephant.com>
Cc: Stephen Reay <php-lists@koalephant.com>
To: php internals <internals@lists.php.net>
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From: richard@miles.systems (Richard Miles)


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Howdy Stephen,=20

>> It seems like everyone always gets really hung up on generics! That =
or how to syntactically implement this.
>=20
> Hi
>=20
> Given other improvements in the language, I don't really see much need =
for the ability to specify fixed keys and their types (ie associative =
arrays) (I assume that's what the "['a' =3D> string]" syntax is meant to =
be?)
>=20
> Is there some fundamental aspect of the original arrayof RFC that =
prevents it from being revived today? The whole "does it include nulls" =
part is moot now presumably because we have both ? And |null, and the =
Type[] syntax is very common in docblocks.


I appreciate your feedback, and I think it=E2=80=99s valid. I try to =
compare my expectations to what is possible in typescript.
This comparison, while not a perfect match, is a great source of =
learning and inspiration.=20

While it=E2=80=99s true that PHP can take arrays and mash them into =
objects, I have to ask myself if this other language has this=20
feature, why don't we? Is it because we don=E2=80=99t care? Is it a bad =
feature? I don't think so.=20
I have a PR for WebSockets that integrates with Apache. Why hasn=E2=80=99t=
 it been done before?
I don=E2=80=99t think this is an oversight on others, but rather, the =
community is what makes PHP better, challenging norms.=20

I=E2=80=99m not saying it will outperform what objectiveness currently =
provides, but I'm also not saying it won=E2=80=99t! I don=E2=80=99t =
think there=E2=80=99s a negative to=20
me implementing this syntax, and who knows, maybe it will be awesome for =
performance. I think what we should consider is that other=20
languages have this, and I feel the community wants this but is hung up =
on generics, which may have been an oversight.?  I=E2=80=99m pretty new=20=

here, and I=E2=80=99d love to make a meaningful impact, so the fact that =
this idea has been brought up before is encouraging.=20

Take, for example:

interface iArrayA ['a' =3D> string, 'b' =3D> string, 'c' =3D> ?string, =
=E2=80=98d=E2=80=99 =3D>  SomeClass, =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99=3D>  iArrayA, =
=E2=80=98f=E2=80=99 =3D> mixed ]

$a =3D new Dict<string, iArrayA>;=20


Maybe the signature for Dict is:

class Dict<R is string | int, S is mixed> {}

Everyone harps on Generics, but no one can say how I'm supposed to model =
iArrayA if we focus on Generics.=20
We cannot safely define this now, as iArrayA is not a valid interface. I =
believe that is what I'm advocating for alone. =20
Array interfaces.=20

Best,=20
Richard Miles=

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Howdy =
Stephen,&nbsp;<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div =
dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div><div style=3D"display: block;"><div style=3D"display: =
block;"></div></div></div><div></div>It seems like everyone always gets =
really hung up on generics! That or how to syntactically implement =
this.</div></blockquote><div><br></div>Hi<div><br></div><div>Given other =
improvements in the language, I don't really see much need for the =
ability to specify fixed keys and their types (ie associative arrays) (I =
assume that's what the "['a' =3D&gt; string]" syntax is meant to =
be?)</div><div><br></div><div>Is there some fundamental aspect of the =
original arrayof RFC that prevents it from being revived today? The =
whole "does it include nulls" part is moot now presumably because we =
have both ? And |null, and the Type[] syntax is very common in =
docblocks.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div><br></div><d=
iv>I appreciate your feedback, and I think it=E2=80=99s valid. I try to =
compare my expectations to what is possible in =
typescript.</div><div>This comparison, while not a perfect match, is a =
great source of learning and =
inspiration.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>While it=E2=80=99s true that =
PHP can take arrays and mash them into objects, I have to ask myself if =
this other language has this&nbsp;</div><div>feature, why don't we? Is =
it because we don=E2=80=99t care? Is it a bad feature? I don't think =
so.&nbsp;</div><div>I have a PR for WebSockets that integrates with =
Apache. Why hasn=E2=80=99t it been done before?</div><div>I don=E2=80=99t =
think this is an oversight on others, but rather, the community is what =
makes PHP better, challenging =
norms.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99m not saying it will =
outperform what objectiveness currently provides, but I'm also not =
saying it won=E2=80=99t! I don=E2=80=99t think there=E2=80=99s a =
negative to&nbsp;</div><div>me implementing this syntax, and who knows, =
maybe it will be awesome for performance. I think what we should =
consider is that other&nbsp;</div><div>languages have this, and I feel =
the community wants this but is hung up on generics, which may have been =
an oversight.? &nbsp;I=E2=80=99m pretty new&nbsp;</div><div>here, and =
I=E2=80=99d love to make a meaningful impact, so the fact that this idea =
has been brought up before is =
encouraging.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Take, for =
example:</div><div><br></div><div><div style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">interface iArrayA ['a' =3D&gt; string, 'b' =
=3D&gt; string, 'c' =3D&gt; ?string, =E2=80=98d=E2=80=99 =3D&gt; =
&nbsp;SomeClass, =E2=80=98e=E2=80=99=3D&gt; &nbsp;iArrayA, =E2=80=98f=E2=80=
=99 =3D&gt; mixed ]</div></div><div><br></div><div>$a =3D new =
Dict&lt;string,&nbsp;<span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: =
rgb(0, 0, =
0);">iArrayA&gt;;&nbsp;</span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><sp=
an style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Maybe the =
signature for Dict is:</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br></span></div><div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">class =
Dict&lt;R is string | int, S is mixed&gt; {}</span></div><div><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Everyone harps on Generics, but no one can say how =
I'm supposed to model&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">iArrayA if we focus on =
Generics.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">We cannot safely define this now, =
as&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, =
0, 0);">iArrayA is not a valid interface. I believe that is what I'm =
advocating for alone. &nbsp;</span></div><div>Array =
interfaces.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0);">Best,&nbsp;</span></font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000"><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Richard =
Miles</span></font></div></body></html>=

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