Newsgroups: php.internals
Path: news.php.net
Xref: news.php.net php.internals:124031
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9142B524-1DB0-4719-B8FD-B1F68C092B79
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: bulk
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [RFC] Operator Overrides -- Lite Edition
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 21:28:10 +0900
Message-ID: <89C9AC15-1456-46AE-9183-DFDA7D0D381D@sakiot.com>
References: <90dd3eb6-c7be-4951-a6b6-fd3785ed92e5@app.fastmail.com>
Cc: Jordan LeDoux <jordan.ledoux@gmail.com>, internals@lists.php.net
In-Reply-To: <90dd3eb6-c7be-4951-a6b6-fd3785ed92e5@app.fastmail.com>
To: Rob Landers <rob@bottled.codes>
From: saki@sakiot.com (Saki Takamachi)


--Apple-Mail-9142B524-1DB0-4719-B8FD-B1F68C092B79
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

> On Sat, Jun 29, 2024, at 02:13, Jordan LeDoux wrote:
>>> 4. The `static` distinction is also fairly meaningless, as in PHP there i=
s no situation possible where an operator overload can occur WITHOUT it oper=
ating on objects themselves.
>>=20
>> For this, that is the wrong approach. The actual behavior is on the type,=
 not the instance. The object instances may not even know their value, they m=
erely represent the value.
>>=20
>> A GMP object instance that does not know its value? What are you even tal=
king about? Can you show me some code explaining what you mean? I had litera=
lly months of this argument for the operator overloads RFC, and studied the o=
verload implementations in six other languages as part of writing that RFC, I=
 feel like I understand this topic fairly well. But I do not understand what=
 you are saying here.
>=20
> A few minutes ago, I sent an email where I accidentally made the code non-=
static, and I think I see the merit in what you are saying. It felt so natur=
al to use $this that I didn't even realize I was doing it wrong.
>=20
> So, looking at your RFC and mine, I think this can be improved.
>=20
> What would you suggest it look like and then we can work backwards from th=
ere?

Here are my thoughts on your code.

In theory, inheriting from this "improved GMP class" would allow overloading=
 of computational operators.

In effect, this acts like a "calcable interface", with the constructor passi=
ng in meaningless values =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8Bto the parent constructor and the=
 add method allowing the user to freely modify the return value.

This means that virtually any userland class can use the operator overloadin=
g feature via a "hack".

This approach is completely wrong. Rather than proposing this as is, it woul=
d be more constructive to propose support for operator overloading.

Regards,

Saki=

--Apple-Mail-9142B524-1DB0-4719-B8FD-B1F68C092B79
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"ltr"></div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,=
</div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><blockquote type=3D"cite">On Sat, Jun 29, 2024, a=
t 02:13, Jordan LeDoux wrote:</blockquote></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div class=3D"qt-gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"qt-gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);=
padding-left:1ex;"><div class=3D"qt-msg3306475242208035808"><div><blockquote=
 type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt-m_3306475242208035808qt"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>=
4. The `static` distinction is also fairly meaningless, as in PHP there is n=
o situation possible where an operator overload can occur WITHOUT it operati=
ng on objects themselves.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>For this, that is the wrong approach. The actual behavior is on the type=
, not the instance. The object instances may not even know their value, they=
 merely represent the value.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></di=
v><div>A GMP object instance that does not know its value? What are you even=
 talking about? Can you show me some code explaining what you mean? I had li=
terally months of this argument for the operator overloads RFC, and studied t=
he overload implementations in six other languages as part of writing that R=
FC, I feel like I understand this topic fairly well. But I do not understand=
 what you are saying here.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>A few minutes ago, I sent an email where I accidentally made the code n=
on-static, and I think I see the merit in what you are saying. It felt so na=
tural to use $this that I didn't even realize I was doing it wrong.<br></div=
><div><br></div><div>So, looking at your RFC and mine, I think this can be i=
mproved.<br></div><div><br></div><div>What would you suggest it look like an=
d then we can work backwards from there?</div></div></blockquote><br><div>He=
re are my thoughts on your code.</div><div><br></div><div>In theory, inherit=
ing from this "improved GMP class" would allow overloading of computational o=
perators.</div><div><br></div><div>In effect, this acts like a "calcable int=
erface", with the constructor passing in meaningless values =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8B=
to the parent constructor and the add method allowing the user to freely mod=
ify the return value.</div><div><br></div><div>This means that virtually any=
 userland class can use the operator overloading feature via a "hack".</div>=
<div><br></div><div>This approach is completely wrong. Rather than proposing=
 this as is, it would be more constructive to propose support for operator o=
verloading.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Saki<=
/div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-9142B524-1DB0-4719-B8FD-B1F68C092B79--