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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 12:51:25 -0700
To: internals@lists.php.net
Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] [Initial Feedback] PHP User Modules - An Adaptation of ES6 from
 JavaScript
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From: jimw@trainedmonkey.com ("Jim Winstead")

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On Wed, Jun 26, 2024, at 7:15 PM, Michael Morris wrote:
> PHP User Modules are php files that are brought into the runtime through a new parser that is able to generate faster and more concise runtime code by removing support for problematic features and imposing a strict mode by default. They focus on PHP as a language and not as a template engine.

I think the problem I have with this proposal is calling these "PHP User Modules". Here's an admittedly uncharitable rephrase of this:

"NewLanguage User Modules are NewLanguage files that are brought into the PHP runtime through a new parser that may theoretically be able to generate faster and more concise runtime code by implementing a different language based on much of the syntax from PHP. This new language does not prioritize its use as a template language for HTML."

> The only background compatibility break is the introduction of three keywords: "import", "export" and "from"

"We will add three new keywords to PHP to support accessing variables, classes, and functions implemented in NewLanguage."

> If you got this far, thank you. This overall idea to take one of the better things to happen to JavaScript in the last decade and incorporate it into PHP has been bothering me for awhile so I figured I'd share.  I don't know how much merit there is to this though.

I think there is a lot of ground to be covered in improving PHP's concept of packages or modules that has largely been punted to user-space with autoloading and Composer and it's always good to address the seams that has left, but I feel like this proposal, as sketched out so far, reminds me more of what became Raku (from the Perl world) or perhaps Hack than an actual way forward for PHP itself.

Thanks.

Jim
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<!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">p.Mso=
Normal,p.MsoNoSpacing{margin:0}</style></head><body><div style=3D"font-f=
amily:Arial;">On Wed, Jun 26, 2024, at 7:15 PM, Michael Morris wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div>PHP User Modules are php files that are brought into the runtime thr=
ough a new parser that is able to generate faster and more concise runti=
me code by removing support for problematic features and imposing a stri=
ct mode by default. They focus on PHP as a language and not as a templat=
e engine.<br></div></div></blockquote><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">=
<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">I think the problem I have w=
ith this proposal is calling these "PHP User Modules". Here's an admitte=
dly uncharitable rephrase of this:<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Ar=
ial;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">"NewLanguage User Modu=
les are NewLanguage files that are brought into the PHP runtime through =
a new parser that may theoretically be able to generate faster and more =
concise runtime code by implementing a different language based on much =
of the syntax from PHP. This new language does not prioritize its use as=
 a template language for HTML."<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial=
;"><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div dir=3D"=
ltr"><div>The only background compatibility break is the introduction of=
 three keywords: "import", "export" and "from"<br></div></div></blockquo=
te><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family=
:Arial;">"We will add three new keywords to PHP to support accessing var=
iables, classes, and functions implemented in NewLanguage."<br></div><di=
v style=3D"font-family:Arial;"><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D=
"qt" style=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>If you got this far, thank you. Th=
is overall idea to take one of the better things to happen to JavaScript=
 in the last decade and incorporate it into PHP has been bothering me fo=
r awhile so I figured I'd share.&nbsp; I don't know how much merit there=
 is to this though.<br></div></div></blockquote><div style=3D"font-famil=
y:Arial;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">I think there is a=
 lot of ground to be covered in improving PHP's concept of packages or m=
odules that has largely been punted to user-space with autoloading and C=
omposer and it's always good to address the seams that has left, but I f=
eel like this proposal, as sketched out so far, reminds me more of what =
became Raku (from the Perl world) or perhaps Hack than an actual way for=
ward for PHP itself.<br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;"><br></di=
v><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">Thanks.<br></div><div style=3D"font-=
family:Arial;"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:Arial;">Jim</div></bo=
dy></html>
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